Al Lock
Let's catch up with what's happening in the world of corporate training, and who better to put in the hot seat than Mr Al Lock, Managing Director of NLI, a company that specializes in high-end training programs for multi-national companies.
Hi again Al, It's been three or four years since we put you in the ajarn hot seat and I think it's fair to say that a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Back in 2004 you were selling corporate training programs for one of Thailand's biggest training providers but decided that it was time to go it alone. Were you confident right from the start that you would make a go of it?
A lack of confidence has never been one of my shortcomings, Phil. And I had reason to be confident, since I did have lots of relationships and already knew there was a demand for corporate training programs that were tailored to client's goals and needs and that met the standards of training programs in the US and Europe. After all, some of the clients that I dealt with had been bringing trainers from the US to do training. The market was there.
I suppose one huge advantage was that you already had plenty of contacts. You'd already forged good relationships with many of the HR / training people. Have those people generally stayed loyal to you?
Loyal to me? No. Loyal to the provider who gives them what they need? Yes. That may sound like a minor difference, but for all that people talk about Thailand being about relationships (and it is, in many ways), as a training provider, you have to deliver. No matter how good of friends you are won't matter if you don't deliver quality programs that meet the client's expectations. Those friends who I had relationships with and who were in corporations that fit our client profile have pretty much all continued doing business with NLI.
What was NLI's basic philosophy at the very beginning?
Initially, we were focused on providing language training that was tailored to specific job tasks for our clients, providing great quality training with outstanding teachers, and a measurable Return on Investment.
And over the three years you've been in business, has that philosophy changed at all?
Some. Now, we aren't about language training. We are about communication training in English (and that is different than language training) and behavioral change in Thai or English. We've moved to an active training model, based on the model that is necessary to produce behavioral change, and applied it to all of our programs. We still provide great active training with outstanding facilitators and a measurable Return on Investment.
You'll forgive me for saying so Al but NLI programs are not cheap. Are there companies out there who truly recognise that a good program costs money?
Nothing to forgive, Phil. From the point of view of many companies out there (and many providers), we are expensive. But for the clients who have taken the time to use us, they've found out that our programs deliver a return on investment far in excess of what they can achieve with a cheap program. So, yes, there are companies out there who truly recognize that a good program costs money. Our client list demonstrates that.
And I suppose at the other end of the spectrum, there are still the companies who want to pack twenty bodies in a classroom for a thousand baht an hour? Presumably you don't bother with those clients any more?
Oh, there are still lots of those, I'm sure. If that is what they want, I suggest other vendors. It's certainly not what we do.
One of your small band of consultants is a very highly-qualified pyschologist. How does Dr Weinstein fit into the scheme of things?
Actually, three of our small band of consultants are psychologists. Dr. Weinstein is just the most visible and probably has the biggest impact on NLI. Ben is the lead consultant on most of our behavioral change programs run in English, and also my primary source for working out how to make training more effective by focusing on an experiential approach.
Bangkok companies often spend huge amounts of money flying in training experts from abroad. What sort of money does that cost and isn't the talent pool available locally?
Well, programs run anywhere from US $1000 a day up to as much as US $15,000 a day or even more...plus the expenses involved (flights, hotels, etc.).
Sometimes, the programs could be delivered by local vendors (like NLI), but often the clients don't know about the local vendors who can do these programs, or are fed up with local vendors and promises and claims that aren't filled. Other programs simply can't be done by anyone locally, usually because they are very specific to a certain industry and skill set.
Most if not all of your consultants are people you've worked with before. Does that mean it's impossible to get a job with NLI if they don't know you personally?
Most, but not all. We've had a few (and have two currently) consultants who came to us through the application process. I'm a tough sell, because my clients are demanding. I want people who can work within our team, are fantastic facilitators, have a training/teaching background and a business background and are absolutely reliable. It's not the easiest mix to find... but it is part of the reason that I pay more than just about anyone else.
Running the ajarn jobs board as I do, I've noticed that the companies paying teachers less than 500 baht an hour for corporate work have all but disappeared. Any comments on that?
Anyone doing corporate work for 500 baht an hour is selling themselves cheap...assuming they actually understand what corporate language work is. Of course, there have been lots of teachers who have done corporate work and don't know anything about business or adult learning, and while they might be worth 700 baht an hour to a school teaching kids, they are wasting the client's time and money, and those teachers are among the primary reasons for corporate clients changing vendors these days.
On the other hand, we're seeing a few new names emerging with teacher rates pegged at around 700 baht. Have I missed something? Has corporate training suddenly become fashionable again?
I don't think it ever went out of fashion. There is just a new group of HRD (Human Resource Development) managers who don't have a in place solution and so lots of vendors are getting a chance to provide cheap solutions. It's a normal cycle. The young HRD managers will learn their lessons after they waste some money with some of these vendors, or when they find an appropriate vendor, and the market (from the Ajarn.com ad point of view) will settle down again.
In a brief chat that you and I had before this hot seat interview, you had some strong views on the materials available for training consultants or rather the lack of good training materials. Go on - get it off your chest.
In my opinion, with a few exceptions, one of the biggest problem facing teachers doing corporate ESL training is the general lack of good training materials. Most books are very obviously written by people who don't have a strong business background and don't actually know what happens in businesses day to day, what people talk about, what they write about, or how business people actually communicate. It's really evident in the writing and business conversation materials, as well as the special purpose materials. Of course, another part of that problem is that business communications evolve rapidly...the way someone in business communicates next year is highly likely to be different from how they communicate this year. And even the newest business ESL materials are badly out-of-date.
How do you make sure that your consultants go into a training room armed with the very best material available?
We build our own materials, drawing on ideas from the newest materials and literature available in the business community. The internet, via blogs and newsletters has made a tremendous amount of current information available, if you put in the time to find it... and then take the ideas and concepts and turn them into training materials for the specific set of program participants. Of course, this requires a full-time materials developer.
At NLI, how exactly do you measure the client's satisfaction?
We survey participants in program and maintain an open dialog with the management. We are rather open about wanting honest feedback, not "Kriang Jai" and have clients who agree with that concept. We post the results from every program in our office. Every consultant, my materials developer, staff and myself can see how a program went and how it compares to other programs. For those who want to improve, it's a pretty good system.
It's impossible to keep every client happy of course? And finally Al, how do you see the future trends in corporate training?
Nothing's impossible. We have done pretty well maintaining long-term clients, but a big part of that is making sure that expectations are not unrealistic before the start of a program. I don't accept clients who are looking for a magic wand solution.
As for the future, clients are going to continue to become more and more demanding. Most of the new players in the corporate market are going to fall away as they find that coping with the demands of corporate clients is more than they counted on. The rates charged, and pay-rates, will increase (and I will continue to pay more for the best trainers than the rest) because of those demands. I expect that the use of e-learning as a quick and easy solution will reduce as corporations become more aware of the short-comings of e-learning solutions.
