Working in The clue is in the name

Monthly Earnings Can I answer that in the next section?

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I was a 30-50K a month teacher in Thailand for around 15 years but had a few fortunate breaks and was able to 'retire' (or semi-retire) quite a few years ago. Nowadays, with investment returns and a few other bits and pieces, I average about 100-120K a month in terms of income. It's very difficult to put an exact monthly figure on it because it fluctuates considerably. It's certainly not a fortune by today's standards and probably puts me on the same earning level as a lower-end international school teacher, right?

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

I save what I don't spend and it's as simple as that. I do the sums regularly and right now, I need a maximum of 60K a month to live a lifestyle I'm happy with. I should add at this point that I do have a decent 'savings pot' behind me, which I never really dip into.
I'm from a working class background, where every pound note was well-earned and the thought of having no money terrifies me, especially as I get older. I'd probably like to end my days in Thailand but the truth is that none of us know what's around the corner. You can only cross your fingers and hope for the best; hope that your savings pot will see you through to the end of your days. My apologies for taking such a dark turn already, but I'm one of life's realists.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

My wife and I had a house built on her mother's land in Samut Prakan about 20 years ago, just after we got married. Obviously, not having to pay for the land was an enormous incentive. The house cost us around 1.5 million baht to build, of which my wonderful mother-in-law chipped in a million, leaving my wife and I to pay off the balance. We are eternally grateful to her because we didn't have a great deal of money around us at the time.

The house is nothing grandiose, in fact it's already showing signs of wear and tear, but it's a roof over our heads and it's the perfect size for a couple with no children. I've always made every effort to furnish the house well and to make it cosy, because I spend a lot of time there. My living environment is one of the most important things in life to me. If that environment is messy or in a state of disrepair, it affects my mental health.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

My wife has always had her own car, which she pays for 100% (I just wash it now and again) That's useful for supermarket shopping, Thailand road trips, etc. I don't personally drive in Thailand (and it's never bothered me) so I'll use the BTS (or even buses and songthaews) to get to the gym, go to football matches, etc. This probably comes to around 600 baht a month.

Utility bills

I transfer 5,000 baht to my wife's bank account at the end of each month and that covers water, electricity, home wifi and my AIS mobile bill.
I think she finds that 5,000 baht enough. She's never complained or asked me for more.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

If I had to choose just two areas that we've really cut down on - well, since the pandemic really - it would be eating out and supermarket shopping. Eating out, especially at what I call the shopping mall chains, is just no longer a pleasure I find. I would rather eat a 50 baht plate of duck and noodles at the local hole-in-the-wall. We have the occasional KFC or McDonalds but no more than once a month.

I also avoid the expensive supermarket chains like TOPS and Foodland whenever possible. I've discovered the joy of walking to the local market and getting to know some of the local traders. It's amazing how much money you can save on provisions such as fresh fruit by buying on the footpath compared to the supermarkets, where prices seem to be spiralling out of control and increasing every week.

My wife and I mostly cook and prepare food at home, and we have what might sound like a weird arrangement to some couples. I pay for my food; she pays for hers. I eat when I'm hungry; as does my wife. We rarely / never eat together at the same table. We're both entirely self-sufficient. It's just a system that works for us.

Oh, I need to come up with a figure. Let's say 8,000 baht a month for my grub, but it's probably less.

Nightlife and drinking

I'm not a great socializer now. I loved a night down the pub back in my younger days, and in the few years when I first came to Thailand, but not anymore. And I married a woman who I don't think has ever stepped foot in a nightclub in her life. This spending section is probably a great big fat zero. I can go for months without an alcoholic drink and not even give it a second thought.

Purely in jest, my wife sometimes calls me 'Billy No-Mates', but the truth is that I've always been a bit of a loner. I'm the teenage box-bedroom rebel who never really changed much when he got to adulthood. I've always been comfortable in my own company. I take my hat off to those who need to be constantly surrounded by people, or look forward to the weekends for the chance to go out and paint the town red. It just isn't me.

Books, computers

I don't do books, I don't do computer games and I don't do TV.
I used to read a lot. I've got a Kindle that's crammed with book titles and I used to love my sports autobiographies and true crime stories, but reading is something I seem to have lost the enthusiasm for as I've gotten older. I can't really explain it. It's the same with computer games. I used to be addicted to them in the days of the Playstation 1 and 2 (I know that's going back a long way) I couldn't wait to get home from work to upload Tomb Raider and get Lara Croft to the next level. But sometimes you have a moment of clarity and realise what an enormous 'time thief' computer games are.

As for TV, I watch about six hours a week (usually in the hour or so before I fall asleep at night). I'm full of admiration for those who sit on the sofa and devour endless hours of Netflix series and box sets. When do you get your housework done?

My desktop computer, laptop and mobile phone are all around four to five years old. I'm not a gadget person either. I replace this stuff when it absolutely becomes unusable. Technology carries a stress all of its own. You buy phones and stuff but you don't own them; they own you!

Q5. So if you need 60,000 baht a month to fund your lifestyle, what does most of that money go on?

My biggest expense is travel. That comes in at around 25K baht a month or 300K baht a year. That 300K a year will get me a trip back home to England to see family, two trips abroad with my wife (last year we did India and Turkey) and a few lengthy breaks in Thailand. When my wife and I travel together, we split the cost of plane tickets, hotel rooms and car hire right down the middle 50/50, but I will generally take care of most of the spending money (food, tickets to attractions, etc). We like to call ourselves 'top end budget travellers'. OK, 10,000 baht-a-night luxury bungalows with ocean views and doors that open directly onto the beach are lovely, but we are genuinely just as happy with something that costs a thousand baht a night.

Private health insurance is also worth a mention. Let's call that 5,000 baht a month (and I've only got it that low because I've factored in a 150K baht excess). The cost of health insurance only goes in one direction each year unfortunately.

Finally, there's gym, which costs me around 6-7K a month for a personal trainer. It's a luxury I suppose but so worth it. I go to gym three times a week (when I'm not travelling) and it's non-negotiable. In fact, I get moody and irritable when I go for a couple of weeks without the chance of a proper workout. We all know that exercise is incredibly important as you age. I've been training with my Thai friend (and fitness guru) Ben for over ten years. He charges me 700 baht an hour (much cheaper than personal trainer rates at a brand name gym) There is also the bonus that Ben speaks very little English and we communicate almost entirely in Thai, so it's a valuable hour of Thai language conversation practice to boot.

Q6. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

It's exactly how I want it (and I've had to work at it, trust me) We travel whenever we want, there's always food on the table, and our living environment is comfortable. I don't want for anything else.

Q7. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Anything that is labour intensive such as needing a wall painted or a tree chopped down or a drain unblocked. Food from the market is also pretty decent value.

Q8. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

Bangkok and 'outside Bangkok' (with the obvious exception of the tourist cities) have become two different worlds in my opinion. I'm reminded of this every time I travel upcountry.
In rural non-touristy cities, I think you could still live very nicely indeed on 40K a month. In Bangkok, I wouldn't like to live on less than 70K if I was also having to find rent out of that.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thank you for reading my ramblings. I just thought it might be a good idea to put myself in the cost of living hot seat because truthfully, I have a real love-hate relationship with money. You wouldn't believe the pile I've lost as a result of poor advice and bad investments, but I try not to dwell on it. I just wish someone had told me years ago to put all the money I made in a tin box under the bed. 

It took me years to figure it out but I'm convinced that the secret with money (and how it relates to life) is to earn 'enough'. Figure out the kind of lifestyle you want (being realistic and not ridiculous), work out the target sum - and then find the easiest way to earn it. 

You know those people who work all the hours godsend, to make as much money as possible, without knowing what their 'target sum' is. Don't be one of them. That's just stupid.

At the end of the day, only your health truly matters.     

Bjorn

12th December 2024

Working in Bangkok

Monthly Earnings 45,000

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I work at a large and very typical government Thai school and my take home salary after tax is just under 45,000 baht. You wouldn't believe how hard I had to fight the school management to get that much. They offered me 30K initially but I wanted 60,000. We settled somewhere in the middle.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

If I manage to save 10,000 baht then that's a good month. There always seems to be an unexpected bill lurking around the corner and even an expense as small as 5,000 can wipe out your savings for that particular month.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

I got lucky with a cheap studio apartment for just 6,000 baht a month because when I started at my school, a teacher who had lived there for five years was just moving out and he had a good relationship with the building owner. The owner was happy to rent it out to another foreign teacher from the local school and not increase the rent. It's nothing fancy but I have made the apartment into my own home sweet home. The building doesn't have any facilities like a gym or swimming pool, etc but the neighborhood is pretty safe, albeit a little far from the main public transport systems.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

I use motorbike taxis at least twice a day to take me from my apartment to the bus stop (or sometimes all the way to school) Throw in the odd taxi and skytrain journey and I guess this is around 1,500 baht a month.

Utility bills

I pay around 2,000 baht a month for electricity and water and phone contracts and Netflix and a few other monthly subscriptions, etc add another couple of thousand to the bill.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

I try to eat healthy so go for a lot of salads and chicken. I'll prepare meat a couple of times a week and have that with salad or brown rice almost every day. I get a hot meal for lunch at the school canteen and usually skip breakfast. I don't eat out much at all.

Nightlife and drinking

I have quite a large circle of friends and teaching colleagues that I go out drinking with but try to keep things down to a couple or three nights a week. We will often gather at a regular Thai restaurant where large bottles of beer are cheap, so a night out is never too expensive. Maybe 6,000 baht a month for this category. You certainly won't find me out at rooftop bars or around the bright lights of town. The drinks are way too expensive for me in those places.

Books, computers

I watch quite a lot of movies and box sets but that's covered by various monthly subscriptions.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

It's OK but I'm very aware that there is a lot of things I cannot afford on a 45K salary in a city that seems to become more and more expensive by the week. I need to make a decision next year on whether to stick around in Bangkok or maybe try my luck in another province where I can live an even quieter life. I'm not sure that would be too much fun though.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Compared to life at home in Sweden, it's most things, but probably rent would come out on top as the biggest bargain.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

In Bangkok? If you are looking to save money, have a decent lifestyle and have good health insurance, etc, I honestly think you need 80-100K a month. I earn barely half that so you can maybe understand why I don't lead such an exciting lifestyle. I just came back from four days in Pattaya with a few friends and we had a wild time. I think I'll be paying that back for several months at least.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thanks Bjorn for an honest survey. You told me offline that you are not a native English speaker so you find it difficult to command the higher salaries, plus you lack experience - but I think things are changing and many employers are recognising that European teachers can make very capable hires with their extensive knowledge and almost flawless use of the English language. Hang in there and gain more teaching experience. Trying your hand at teaching in a quieter town in another province (with fewer temptations) might not be a bad plan B though. 

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Patrick

9th November 2024

Working in Don Mueang, but when I walk my dogs we cross into Phatum Thani

Monthly Earnings 240,000 to 300,000 a month

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

Monthly Earnings 70,000 to 80,000 (me), + 100,000 to 130,000 (wife) + 70,000 to 90,000 (Money from savings, investments, etc.) so 240,000 to 300,000

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

Around 50,000 to 150,000 a month, but expenses are unusually high. Most of the savings is in the form of paying off our expensive 30 year mortgage, in 7 years we have paid 85% of it off. When a certain amount of money accumulates, we go and pay off another month. I hate paying interest

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

55,000 a month mortgage. We began building our dream house in 2014, on land we bought in 2008. We ended up taking a 30 year mortgage in 2017. We often pay more than required, to eat into the principle. My house is very, very nice.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Maybe 8,000 to 10,000. We own a 16 year old Avanza, a 10 year old CRV, and confiscated a tiny honda that is about 10 years old from a family member (cousin mentioned later) who should not be driving. All cars are paid off. We live in the suburbs but teach either in ThaPhraChan or out past Future Park, so we drive long distances, and use tolls. My wife also uses taxis a lot for her trips downtown on project business

Utility bills

Call it 10,000-15,000 – it is a large house, with many people, and I like AC. But this covers electricity (more than half), water, phones, internet, streaming services, etc.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

About 30,000 a month. We don’t go out that much anymore, but I do like me some beer(s) in the evenings, she likes shrimp and fancy food, and we are basically price indifferent at this point.

Nightlife and drinking

Covered in food section.

Books, computers

We both get money for this from our jobs, which works out to 3,500 a month – which we periodically spend. Add another 2,000 a month for new phones, or other toys – Call it 6,000 a month total

And now I am going to add two more needed categories, this seems the best place

The help
Nurse/Maid (13,000), maid (17,000), part time gardener (6,000), and the other nurse/maid (13,000) = 49,000 a month, more when we take care of their family emergencies, healthcare, etc.

Family Expenses and Obligations
My wife’s father lives with us, and has since 2017. He is 96 years old, blind (for 30 years), and very frail. He gets 11,000 a month in pensions, and has some insurance from his former job (he worked for the government). At this point it is a mystery as to how he is still alive. This costs us a lot of money, aside from the costs of the help, lots of trips to the emergency room, routine trips, etc. This adds a bunch more money, and also takes up a huge amount of time – not because we are always at the hospital, but because at any moment we might have to drop everything and go to it.

Ohh, and my wife also has an elderly cousin who is suffering from dementia. She lived with us for a year during covid, we renovated her house, and got her a nurse/maid (covered in “The help”), and now she stays with us about two months, then her house 3-4 months, then back with us. This also costs money... and time. And aggravation as she wasn’t that nice to begin with, but it is what it is.

Should also mention health insurance, and health care for ourselves, it all probably averages to 15,000 for our health care, and another 10,000 for everybody else

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

Maybe 15 years ago, sitting at a table with 4-5 westerners, one of them began talking about how he got rejected for a loan to buy his dream bike, a Ducati, because he was delinquent on his loan for his Mercedes-Benz. Problem was, he hadn’t bought one. His wife’s brother had done so using his name, for his little wife, they had a fight and she drove it into a canal rather than return it, and he stopped making payments.

We all had a good “we feel bad for you/but also a good laugh” at it. And then I smugly said “Glad I married an only child”.

The oldest one at table replied “should have married an orphan”.

All things considered, great. We didn’t earn huge money, but we definitely earned good money, and managed it well. The family obligations (and uncertainty about it) is stressful. Most of that stress falls on my wife, she would not say great.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Anything involving labor. I would call an electrician to change the light bulb, if my wife would allow it. Rental costs are cheap, buying a house less so but still better than the U.S. Street food is getting more expensive, but still cheap, and the basic stuff at a market is much cheaper than a supermarket, once you figure it all out.

A beautiful garden – if you own a house. Travel around the country. Really good food, at the right restaurant. Foot or full massages. Great dogs here cost a pork chop, my U.S. friends pay 50,000 baht plus for a dog which strikes me as insane. Teak furniture, plants, any handmade products.

Much of the above depends on if you are visiting Thailand, or moving to it. When I arrived here, I understood I would be living here for a (very) long time. I purchased accordingly. The somewhat expensive teak living room set I purchased 18 years ago, I am still sitting on – and the living room set went through the flood.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

Without savings? Bangkok 30,000, upcountry 20,000.
With savings/a future? I used to say 40,000 for Bangkok, but now I would say 50,000. And that is without much savings.

Long term: I am aiming to retire soon, with a large house fully paid off, and 100,000 a month in mostly investment income. You simply can’t reach that at 50,000 a month no matter how much you scrimp and save. O.K. maybe if you started at 20 years old, and follow through till you are 60. But that would still be hard.

Other thoughts:
I moved to Thailand in 2004, and earned 20,000 or so a month teaching SAT prep classes. But I got a one class side job at a university where my wife worked. When the SAT job ended, I started teaching multiple classes at the university. Monthly income averaged 43,000 in 2006 (when I first started tracking it), 48,000 in 2007, in 2009 I finished my dissertation, and my salary jumped up. I have earned 70,000-80,000 a month since then – though my work load has fallen over that time.

My wife earned more over most of this period. Also from 2004 to 2014, we had passive income from a restaurant in in the U.S., which took care of all our debt in the U.S. But I always saved 40 - 50% of my income. My wife usually did as well.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thank you Patrick for such a detailed analysis and also a very interesting read. I hope people won't stop reading as soon as they see your salary and think 'oh here's another rich teacher' because that's certainly not the whole story. There's a lot of stress going on in the background and your overheads are eye-watering. Thanks so much for sharing.

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Robert

31st October 2024

Working in Bangkok

Monthly Earnings A minimum of 50K a month but my income varies considerably depending on how much work I want to take on.

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I'm on the books of several language schools, where I tend to do hourly paid evening work, and also at several colleges and universities, who use me for substitute teaching. Because I retired in my early fifties and only see teaching as something to keep me busy, schools know that if they have a staffing problem, I'm their go-to guy and can be there at a moment's notice. I also do the odd corporate teaching gig and help out a couple of company marketing departments. I make a minimum of 50K a month but can make over 100K in a busy month.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

I don't really set a figure on this but what I earn more than covers my living expenses, and that includes paying out for health insurance and an annual trip back to the UK to see family and friends. I'm lucky enough to have had a good career in business consulting and so saved hopefully enough to keep me for the rest of my days.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

I live in a very modest one-bedroom apartment, which costs 12,000 baht a month. I never feel that there's a need to spend any more than this if you're a guy living on his own - even in Bangkok. 35 square metres and walking distance to the skytrain is really all I need!

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Probably about three thousand a month on skytrain and MRT fares. And I'm still waiting for the day that the two mass transportation systems are combined on one ticket!

Utility bills

2,000 baht a month for water and electricity. I've recently changed the aircon unit in the bedroom and the bill has gone down considerably.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

Because I'm buzzing around the city a lot going from one teaching job to the next, I tend to just reach out and grab whatever is convenient. I'm a big fan of Thai food courts because they are great value and minimum hassle. I don't really bother with swanky restaurants or fast food chains (I might have a maccy dees once a month). I sometimes make a sandwich at home or put a salad together. It's difficult to put a figure on this one. Shall we say around 10K baht a month.

Nightlife and drinking

Oh, I'm far too old and ugly to go trawling around Bangkok's bars, although I meet friends for drinks and a meal a couple of times a month, usually at a place they know and frequent regularly in quieter, less touristy parts of town.

Books, computers and gaming, etc

Yes, I do like my computer games and probably spend 5,000 a month on this. You have to be careful though because once you get into an addictive new game, it can quickly become way past your bedtime.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

It's everything I dreamed off when I decided several years ago that I had had enough of trying to start the car on freezing cold English wintry days. You don't need to be earning a fortune in Thailand in order to be happy... but you need to be earning a small fortune in Europe these days.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

I think most costs are very reasonable although I do baulk at the price of some imported foodstuffs in the supermarket. Thankfully I never feel the need to fill my basket with them!

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

I think you could do OK on 50,000 baht in Bangkok but you'd have to watch your bottom line and plan and budget accordingly. I wouldn't like to live on less than 50K. On that amount you are seriously going without.

Phil's analysis and comment

Robert, you sound like one of those go-out-and-get-em types who always do well in the big city. And that's often how things work in Thailand. Earn a reputation as a professional who does a good job, is culturally aware and easy to get along with, and you'll never be out of work. You find your first few jobs and word-of-mouth takes you the rest of the way. 

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Robin

2nd October 2024

Working in Jakarta

Monthly Earnings 286,000

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

Salary + annual Bonus : 246k. My salary and annual bonus is 246K and private tuition makes me another 30K, and then a further 11K from various investments.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

Around 155k a month. Some months more, some money less. A lot depends on whether i make any large one off payments or go away on holiday. Nearly all of that goes into long term, low risk ETFs and shares, with the intention of hopefully being able to live off the interest/dividends in a few years time.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

Around 25k a month. That get's you a 160 sqm, 3-bedroom condo, relatively close to my school. There are tennis courts, pools and a bar here, so it's a good place to keep fit, but also sink a few beers after work. I plan to move out of here in Febuary to a slightly more modern place, for the same price.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Around 5K. I used a motorbike in Bangkok, but the roads here are a totally different beast. They are utter chaos. So, i just rent a car/driver and car share for the daily commute. The rest goes on Grab taxis, which are much cheaper than they are in Bangkok.

Utility bills

Similiar to Thailand. Around 2K a month for water and electric.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

There is far less nightlife here compared to Bangkok, so I spend a lot less on restaurants and have started to cook at home a lot more, which i have found to be a little more healthier and better in terms of saving money. However, I do like to head out at the weekends and treat myself and order food in during the week sometimes. This comes to around 12K a month.

Nightlife and drinking

As previously mentioned, there aren't as many bars as in Bangkok, so in terms of nightlife, very little. I do like the occasional drink with friends after football, and that comes to around 3K a month.

Books, computers

I have a Macbook from work and a Kindle. I buy a few Ebooks off Amazon each month and enjoy reading. So around 2K.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

World class. The school is first class and takes care of your every need. I was in Bangkok for three years at two schools, which weren't bad at all, but very profit orientated, with the Thai owners constantly penny pinching. Therefore, when I was approached to work in Jakarta, the package was simply too good to turn down. You can eat and drink out whenever you want, and when the holidays arrive, you can go on some truly spectacular holidays.

The food scene and nightlife isn't a patch on Bangkok, but that's only a few hours away and won't go anywhere. I do miss Bangkok for sure though, particularly the parks, watching Port FC and the bar scene by the Chao Praya. I may come back to Thailand at some stage, most likely to Chiang Mai.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Accommodation. When I lived in Bangkok, my housing allowance of 25K didn't really go very far, getting me a condo room the size of a shoe-box in Asok. Over here, you can get some very impressive apartments for the same amount of money, if not less.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

You could easily survive on 40-50k a month here, but like Bangkok, it would mean that you live a fairly restrictive lifestyle.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thanks Robin, it sounds like a great life in Jakarta on that sort of money. You would have a fantastic life in Thailand as well on that salary package but obviously, you'll save as much as you can while Jakarta gives you the opportunity - and head back here one day.

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