Working in Don Mueang, but when I walk my dogs we cross into Phatum Thani

Monthly Earnings 240,000 to 300,000 a month

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

Monthly Earnings 70,000 to 80,000 (me), + 100,000 to 130,000 (wife) + 70,000 to 90,000 (Money from savings, investments, etc.) so 240,000 to 300,000

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

Around 50,000 to 150,000 a month, but expenses are unusually high. Most of the savings is in the form of paying off our expensive 30 year mortgage, in 7 years we have paid 85% of it off. When a certain amount of money accumulates, we go and pay off another month. I hate paying interest

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

55,000 a month mortgage. We began building our dream house in 2014, on land we bought in 2008. We ended up taking a 30 year mortgage in 2017. We often pay more than required, to eat into the principle. My house is very, very nice.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Maybe 8,000 to 10,000. We own a 16 year old Avanza, a 10 year old CRV, and confiscated a tiny honda that is about 10 years old from a family member (cousin mentioned later) who should not be driving. All cars are paid off. We live in the suburbs but teach either in ThaPhraChan or out past Future Park, so we drive long distances, and use tolls. My wife also uses taxis a lot for her trips downtown on project business

Utility bills

Call it 10,000-15,000 – it is a large house, with many people, and I like AC. But this covers electricity (more than half), water, phones, internet, streaming services, etc.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

About 30,000 a month. We don’t go out that much anymore, but I do like me some beer(s) in the evenings, she likes shrimp and fancy food, and we are basically price indifferent at this point.

Nightlife and drinking

Covered in food section.

Books, computers

We both get money for this from our jobs, which works out to 3,500 a month – which we periodically spend. Add another 2,000 a month for new phones, or other toys – Call it 6,000 a month total

And now I am going to add two more needed categories, this seems the best place

The help
Nurse/Maid (13,000), maid (17,000), part time gardener (6,000), and the other nurse/maid (13,000) = 49,000 a month, more when we take care of their family emergencies, healthcare, etc.

Family Expenses and Obligations
My wife’s father lives with us, and has since 2017. He is 96 years old, blind (for 30 years), and very frail. He gets 11,000 a month in pensions, and has some insurance from his former job (he worked for the government). At this point it is a mystery as to how he is still alive. This costs us a lot of money, aside from the costs of the help, lots of trips to the emergency room, routine trips, etc. This adds a bunch more money, and also takes up a huge amount of time – not because we are always at the hospital, but because at any moment we might have to drop everything and go to it.

Ohh, and my wife also has an elderly cousin who is suffering from dementia. She lived with us for a year during covid, we renovated her house, and got her a nurse/maid (covered in “The help”), and now she stays with us about two months, then her house 3-4 months, then back with us. This also costs money... and time. And aggravation as she wasn’t that nice to begin with, but it is what it is.

Should also mention health insurance, and health care for ourselves, it all probably averages to 15,000 for our health care, and another 10,000 for everybody else

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

Maybe 15 years ago, sitting at a table with 4-5 westerners, one of them began talking about how he got rejected for a loan to buy his dream bike, a Ducati, because he was delinquent on his loan for his Mercedes-Benz. Problem was, he hadn’t bought one. His wife’s brother had done so using his name, for his little wife, they had a fight and she drove it into a canal rather than return it, and he stopped making payments.

We all had a good “we feel bad for you/but also a good laugh” at it. And then I smugly said “Glad I married an only child”.

The oldest one at table replied “should have married an orphan”.

All things considered, great. We didn’t earn huge money, but we definitely earned good money, and managed it well. The family obligations (and uncertainty about it) is stressful. Most of that stress falls on my wife, she would not say great.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Anything involving labor. I would call an electrician to change the light bulb, if my wife would allow it. Rental costs are cheap, buying a house less so but still better than the U.S. Street food is getting more expensive, but still cheap, and the basic stuff at a market is much cheaper than a supermarket, once you figure it all out.

A beautiful garden – if you own a house. Travel around the country. Really good food, at the right restaurant. Foot or full massages. Great dogs here cost a pork chop, my U.S. friends pay 50,000 baht plus for a dog which strikes me as insane. Teak furniture, plants, any handmade products.

Much of the above depends on if you are visiting Thailand, or moving to it. When I arrived here, I understood I would be living here for a (very) long time. I purchased accordingly. The somewhat expensive teak living room set I purchased 18 years ago, I am still sitting on – and the living room set went through the flood.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

Without savings? Bangkok 30,000, upcountry 20,000.
With savings/a future? I used to say 40,000 for Bangkok, but now I would say 50,000. And that is without much savings.

Long term: I am aiming to retire soon, with a large house fully paid off, and 100,000 a month in mostly investment income. You simply can’t reach that at 50,000 a month no matter how much you scrimp and save. O.K. maybe if you started at 20 years old, and follow through till you are 60. But that would still be hard.

Other thoughts:
I moved to Thailand in 2004, and earned 20,000 or so a month teaching SAT prep classes. But I got a one class side job at a university where my wife worked. When the SAT job ended, I started teaching multiple classes at the university. Monthly income averaged 43,000 in 2006 (when I first started tracking it), 48,000 in 2007, in 2009 I finished my dissertation, and my salary jumped up. I have earned 70,000-80,000 a month since then – though my work load has fallen over that time.

My wife earned more over most of this period. Also from 2004 to 2014, we had passive income from a restaurant in in the U.S., which took care of all our debt in the U.S. But I always saved 40 - 50% of my income. My wife usually did as well.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thank you Patrick for such a detailed analysis and also a very interesting read. I hope people won't stop reading as soon as they see your salary and think 'oh here's another rich teacher' because that's certainly not the whole story. There's a lot of stress going on in the background and your overheads are eye-watering. Thanks so much for sharing.

Robert

31st October 2024

Working in Bangkok

Monthly Earnings A minimum of 50K a month but my income varies considerably depending on how much work I want to take on.

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I'm on the books of several language schools, where I tend to do hourly paid evening work, and also at several colleges and universities, who use me for substitute teaching. Because I retired in my early fifties and only see teaching as something to keep me busy, schools know that if they have a staffing problem, I'm their go-to guy and can be there at a moment's notice. I also do the odd corporate teaching gig and help out a couple of company marketing departments. I make a minimum of 50K a month but can make over 100K in a busy month.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

I don't really set a figure on this but what I earn more than covers my living expenses, and that includes paying out for health insurance and an annual trip back to the UK to see family and friends. I'm lucky enough to have had a good career in business consulting and so saved hopefully enough to keep me for the rest of my days.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

I live in a very modest one-bedroom apartment, which costs 12,000 baht a month. I never feel that there's a need to spend any more than this if you're a guy living on his own - even in Bangkok. 35 square metres and walking distance to the skytrain is really all I need!

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Probably about three thousand a month on skytrain and MRT fares. And I'm still waiting for the day that the two mass transportation systems are combined on one ticket!

Utility bills

2,000 baht a month for water and electricity. I've recently changed the aircon unit in the bedroom and the bill has gone down considerably.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

Because I'm buzzing around the city a lot going from one teaching job to the next, I tend to just reach out and grab whatever is convenient. I'm a big fan of Thai food courts because they are great value and minimum hassle. I don't really bother with swanky restaurants or fast food chains (I might have a maccy dees once a month). I sometimes make a sandwich at home or put a salad together. It's difficult to put a figure on this one. Shall we say around 10K baht a month.

Nightlife and drinking

Oh, I'm far too old and ugly to go trawling around Bangkok's bars, although I meet friends for drinks and a meal a couple of times a month, usually at a place they know and frequent regularly in quieter, less touristy parts of town.

Books, computers and gaming, etc

Yes, I do like my computer games and probably spend 5,000 a month on this. You have to be careful though because once you get into an addictive new game, it can quickly become way past your bedtime.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

It's everything I dreamed off when I decided several years ago that I had had enough of trying to start the car on freezing cold English wintry days. You don't need to be earning a fortune in Thailand in order to be happy... but you need to be earning a small fortune in Europe these days.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

I think most costs are very reasonable although I do baulk at the price of some imported foodstuffs in the supermarket. Thankfully I never feel the need to fill my basket with them!

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

I think you could do OK on 50,000 baht in Bangkok but you'd have to watch your bottom line and plan and budget accordingly. I wouldn't like to live on less than 50K. On that amount you are seriously going without.

Phil's analysis and comment

Robert, you sound like one of those go-out-and-get-em types who always do well in the big city. And that's often how things work in Thailand. Earn a reputation as a professional who does a good job, is culturally aware and easy to get along with, and you'll never be out of work. You find your first few jobs and word-of-mouth takes you the rest of the way. 

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Robin

2nd October 2024

Working in Jakarta

Monthly Earnings 286,000

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

Salary + annual Bonus : 246k. My salary and annual bonus is 246K and private tuition makes me another 30K, and then a further 11K from various investments.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

Around 155k a month. Some months more, some money less. A lot depends on whether i make any large one off payments or go away on holiday. Nearly all of that goes into long term, low risk ETFs and shares, with the intention of hopefully being able to live off the interest/dividends in a few years time.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

Around 25k a month. That get's you a 160 sqm, 3-bedroom condo, relatively close to my school. There are tennis courts, pools and a bar here, so it's a good place to keep fit, but also sink a few beers after work. I plan to move out of here in Febuary to a slightly more modern place, for the same price.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

Around 5K. I used a motorbike in Bangkok, but the roads here are a totally different beast. They are utter chaos. So, i just rent a car/driver and car share for the daily commute. The rest goes on Grab taxis, which are much cheaper than they are in Bangkok.

Utility bills

Similiar to Thailand. Around 2K a month for water and electric.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

There is far less nightlife here compared to Bangkok, so I spend a lot less on restaurants and have started to cook at home a lot more, which i have found to be a little more healthier and better in terms of saving money. However, I do like to head out at the weekends and treat myself and order food in during the week sometimes. This comes to around 12K a month.

Nightlife and drinking

As previously mentioned, there aren't as many bars as in Bangkok, so in terms of nightlife, very little. I do like the occasional drink with friends after football, and that comes to around 3K a month.

Books, computers

I have a Macbook from work and a Kindle. I buy a few Ebooks off Amazon each month and enjoy reading. So around 2K.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

World class. The school is first class and takes care of your every need. I was in Bangkok for three years at two schools, which weren't bad at all, but very profit orientated, with the Thai owners constantly penny pinching. Therefore, when I was approached to work in Jakarta, the package was simply too good to turn down. You can eat and drink out whenever you want, and when the holidays arrive, you can go on some truly spectacular holidays.

The food scene and nightlife isn't a patch on Bangkok, but that's only a few hours away and won't go anywhere. I do miss Bangkok for sure though, particularly the parks, watching Port FC and the bar scene by the Chao Praya. I may come back to Thailand at some stage, most likely to Chiang Mai.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Accommodation. When I lived in Bangkok, my housing allowance of 25K didn't really go very far, getting me a condo room the size of a shoe-box in Asok. Over here, you can get some very impressive apartments for the same amount of money, if not less.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

You could easily survive on 40-50k a month here, but like Bangkok, it would mean that you live a fairly restrictive lifestyle.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thanks Robin, it sounds like a great life in Jakarta on that sort of money. You would have a fantastic life in Thailand as well on that salary package but obviously, you'll save as much as you can while Jakarta gives you the opportunity - and head back here one day.

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Seb

19th September 2024

Working in Bangkok

Monthly Earnings 162,000

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I hold a senior management position in a cookie-cutter international school and my gross salary is around 200K baht, which comes to 162,000 net after deductions. I also get a free economy class return flight to US every two years.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

I put 50,000 baht into a US 401k (via SWIFT) holding low cost ETFs. I'm in my late 50s and have rather neglected saving for retirement, hence this significant contribution. I'd much rather be spending it on something else but I hope to pull the retirement trigger at 65, at which point I'll start drawing it down and my lifestyle will transition to nuclear holocaust.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

42,000 baht a month including bills. It's a standard condo in central Bangkok with a gym, pool, etc. This leaves me with around 70K a month to live my life.

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

BTS and taxis consume around 6,000 baht a month I'd say.

Utility bills

Bills are included in the 42,000 rent. I pay around 2,000 for air-con and water.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

I eat out every night and I don't spare the horses here. Haute cuisine adds up, particularly when paying for two on many such occasions. Let's say 30,000 baht a month.

Nightlife and drinking

I'm out a lot. I love the Bangkok nightlife. I'll often be found entertaining a lady on rooftop bars and those cocktails don't pay for themselves. I'm going with another 30,000 here once 'miscellaneous services' are factored in.

Books, computers

Zero. I use a work laptop.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

Living the dream.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Necking a few pints of Hoegaarden Original at 350 a pop on Palate Rooftop Bar at sunset is superb value. I'll often drop a grand there after a hard day of deciding what our school's core values are, observing teachers teach and avoiding cover classes at all costs.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

70K a month to survive but 100K to thrive.

Phil's analysis and comment

I know that feeling well Seb when you didn't worry about retirement in your younger years and suddenly your golden years need fast-tracking with some serious cash injections. You're not going without though by the sound of things. Plenty of nights out, good food, and a fine place to come home to at the end of each day. I bet you wouldn't know what to do with that extra 50,000 baht anyway. LOL   

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Richard

5th September 2024

Working in Chonburi

Monthly Earnings 110,000

Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)

I work as a senior teacher at an international school and my full-time salary is 110,000. It's not one of the top-paying international schools by any stretch but more what you would call mid-range. I also get a month's bonus at the end of each year but I haven't factored that in. I use that money to make the annual trip home and can usually treat myself to a business class flight.

Q2. How much money can you save each month?

I don't set out to save a specific amount each month, I guess I'm like most other teachers, you pay your bills, do your shopping, spend what needs to be spent and then see what amount you have left over. I don't think there are many months where I don't save at least 30-40K.

Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?

I've recently moved into a nice newly-built condo unit, and that cost me just under two million baht. I paid half of the amount myself, and family members have helped me out with the other half. The bank of Mom and Dad offers fantastic interest rates! It's only a small condo with a living room space, a kitchen and a bathroom. It would be a fairly tight squeeze for a couple but it's fine for one. I absolutely love it here!

Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?

Transportation

I have my own car, which I bought three years ago. It's only about a ten-minute drive to work so gas barely costs a couple of thousand a month. I don't tend to use the car if I do any travelling in Thailand (which I do at every opportunity I get) I find driving long distances here too stressful so I prefer to take the plane or the train, book a nice hotel near the beach, and spoil myself a little.

Utility bills

I'm billed directly by the utility companies so it's around 2,000 a month for electricity and water. There is also a 700 baht a month service charge to keep the community areas maintained, etc.

Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping

One of the reasons I love Chonburi is there are so many new cafes and eateries popping up all the time. One closes and another one springs up in its place. I love exploring on foot (or motorcycle taxi) and finding new places. I can't imagine anything more laborious than planning meals and cooking at home. Why would you when eating out is such great value! I don't skimp on food and drink. This is probably 20,000 a month. What's that? 600 baht a day. Yes, must be at least that when you factor in the odd bottle of wine and craft beers.

Nightlife and drinking

I put supermarket alcohol in the above section. I'm actually not that keen on Chonburi late at night because it has its fair share of beered-up loose cannons. To be honest, I'd rather swerve the drinking in Chonburi and head down to Pattaya for the weekend. I do that once a month and can easily drop 20K.

Books, computers

I prefer watching TV to reading so I have a Netflix subscription (around 500 baht isn't it) I do like to have the latest smartphone though and those can be around 40K these days. Difficult to put a monthly figure on this one.

Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?

Absolutely fabulous! I sometimes feel guilty when I'm lounging around the condo pool, drinking and laughing with a few fellow residents I've become friendly with, and think how my home country has gone down the toilet. I hope the day never comes when I have to return there. Thailand is just paradise in comparison.

Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?

Eating out. It's terrific value once you get out of Bangkok and avoid the tourist rip-off joints in places like Pattaya and Phuket. You can get a fabulous meal in Chonburi for a couple of hundred baht.

Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?

I wouldn't want to live in a major Thai city on less than 80K a month, so what I earn is more than enough! You have to strike a work-life balance. Having a great time here doesn't necessarily mean spending lots of money. Some of the best things are free or cost very little. I can happily go down to the seafront for a run and eat 50 baht's worth of hawker food.

Phil's analysis and comment

Thanks Richard, it sounds like you're really enjoying life here. And I absolutely agree with you - eating out in small cafes, etc is very reasonable once you move outside of Bangkok, etc and no, you don't have to spend, spend, spend to have a good time. Sometimes it's actually a joy to find those pleasurable activities that cost very little. 

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