re: There is Hope (Ajarn Postbox 24th July) " I am proof that if a government school is happy with you they can bypass hurdles to employ you. You have to be lucky, and liked! Today I was made aware of the new law, i.e. must have a degree in teaching. We all know that will create a shortage of farang teachers in Thailand."

The bad news is that your tenure will likely be short lived. Worse news is that they "can" get English speaking teachers with degrees to replace you. Don't get too complacent sitting there and you better get on with upgrading your qualifications or you may find the door quickly shut in your face in the near future.

re: The Grass is Greener (Ajarn Postbox 21st July) "I live and work in probably the most enigmatic country in the world, but after all of the necessary checks have been made, then one is treated with respect and not with contempt"

If people have the necessary qualifications and work as professionals then, in my experience, they are usually treated as such - even in Thailand.

re: Let's Wait and See (Ajarn Postbox 19th July) The English programs are falling apart - more likely because of the previous teachers and employment practices rather than a tightening of the rules. If a shortage of unqualified teachers results from the crackdown then in the longer run it will be a good thing. The song and dance that has been sung here over the last few years ( "shortage of teachers", "English education dying," etc. ) is no different than was sung in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and other countries when they clamped down.

At the end of the day there was no shortage of qualified teachers (degrees + TEFL) and their systems continue to improve (7 of the top 10 ranked countries (PISA scores 2012) are now in Asia and notably the UK (26th overall) and US (36th overall) are not in the top 10).

As far as "teachers" getting stranded outside the country because of paperwork to apply for their non-b ... faxes/e-mail attachments are easy enough to do and couriers work overnight across the region if originals are needed. It's not that hard to get the paperwork correct or get something sent in when necessary (even if it means a day or two delay). Again, in my experience, if the "teacher" is properly qualified there usually is no issue with the non-b application at a foreign consulate or embassy.

Kudos to immigration and the TCT for tightening it all up. I hope they don't backtrack simply for the sake of convenience.

To those affected teachers... there is no surprise here. This story was written on the wall years ago. If you are qualified then get your license and don't worry. The paperwork is pretty simple for those with their Thai license.

For the rest, if you failed to to anything to upgrade your qualifications you have nobody to blame but yourself. You've had 12 years (this all started back in 2002). The day of reckoning is fast approaching. The degree is now what the high school diploma was a generation ago. The days of the "tourist teacher" with a high school completion, fresh face and a TEFL cert are now facing a mass extinction event (globally).

Dave

I have been living and working in Thailand as a teacher for five years. I am in my third year at the same government school. I have a TEFL certificate, but do not have a degree.

In the first year at the school, and after I had worked with them for a few months, they asked me about having a degree. To cut a long story short they became aware I didn't have a degree. I thought I was finished, but they wanted me to stay at the school. The director supported me and spoke to the Ministry of Education. I got a work permit, and have had it extended twice.

To be able to work for a third year the school paid for me to do the Thai Culture Course, which has entitled me to a two-year teaching licence. I am proof that if a government school is happy with you they can bypass hurdles to employ you. You have to be lucky, and liked! Today I was made aware of the new law, i.e. must have a degree in teaching. We all know that will create a shortage of farang teachers in Thailand.

As for me, my school is keeping their finger on the pulse as to how it will affect my situation. There's hope for us.

Trevor

I have been an avid reader of the ajarn.com website for over nine years. I had taught in Thailand for five years before I moved to Saudi Arabia in 2010. Although I left Thailand four years ago, I still keep in touch with some of my former colleagues and I visit the ajarn.com website at least once a week.

I had five excellent years living and working in Thailand, but the nonsensical bureaucracy eventually drove me away. It seemed (and still seems to me) that the bureaucrats in the Thai MOE and the department of immigration are still trying to drive the foreign teachers away by constantly moving the goalposts and introducing ridiculous regulations.

I live and work in probably the most enigmatic country in the world, but after all of the necessary checks have been made, then one is treated with respect and not with contempt. I say to all of the teachers who feel like they are being treated with contempt “Move on and look for a job somewhere you won’t be treated in the same manner you are now”

Mike

It is very interesting to read all the gossip and drama surrounding the new visa rules. I think 'apparently' is the correct word to use during this debate because I think people need to look at this situation realistically.

I know many "teachers" work here on tourist visas or Non B visas without a work permit etc. I think that is a given. I think it is also fair to say that no "qualified" teacher, and I mean one who has just spent 4 years of hard graft in university, is going to pick Thailand as their preferred teaching destination and work essentially for peanuts. Those at international schools obviously yes. They pay a proper salary in line with their qualifications.

I think the clampdown may continue for a few months or until they realize that Thailand's school English programs are falling apart. Then, I suspect things will return to normal. My personal opinion goes back to the 'degree no degree' debate which always kicks up a stink and ruffles a few feathers.

I do have to stick by what I say though and feel that if Thailand took a more sensible approach to foreign teachers then a lot of this could be avoided. Competence is needed more than a degree. A competency test compiled by a reputable outside agency should be used and if a foreigner can pass that and has a Tefl certificatel or the like, they should be accepted to teach.

There are many people in this country who can do a decent job and are happy to do that for the low wage offered. The wage offered is usually all the schools can afford. It will be a sad day, the day Thai authorities decide they don't need English. The world runs on it at most levels. We will have to wait and see what happens, although not famous for it, I am sure common sense will prevail and maybe if there are sectors that need clamping down on, they concentrate on those rather than sectors that are actually giving something to Thailand for relatively little reward.

John

I'm sure that many of you will have been reading over the past few weeks that there are some major changes on the way regarding visa rules and immigration laws in Thailand.

August 12th has been designated as the date for the new rules to be implemented. From that date, apparently no one will be allowed to use back-to-back 60-day tourist visas to enter Thailand. You can use one 60-day tourist visa to enter the country, but forget about using a second one. Apparently you'll be refused entry at the airport as well as any land border.

Thai immigration has apparently brought in these rules to crack down on the number of people (and there are plenty of them) who are using tourist visas to continually extend their stay in Thailand and in many cases, work illegally.

(You'll notice I'm using the word 'apparently' a lot because it's often foolish to quote any newspaper article or forum post as 'gospel' - especially where Thai immigration rules are concerned. There's often a sense of well, let's wait and see what unfolds.

I'm obviously going to come at this topic from the angle of 'schools hiring new teachers' because isn't the following a common scenario - and has been for some time?

A new teacher arrives in the country with a tourist visa (it's nigh on impossible to secure a non-immigrant B at a Thai consulate in your own country visa unless you have a concrete job offer and the appropriate paperwork)

The new teacher finds a teaching job and then has to do a 'visa run' to a neighboring country (Malaysia, Laos, etc) with supposedly the correct paperwork given to them by their new employer (school) to support their application for a non-immigrant B visa.

Then it's all in the lap of the Gods. Perhaps a document is missing from the teacher's application? Perhaps the consulate in the neighboring country has its own agenda? Perhaps the officer got up in a bad mood?

We know from past experience that there is no guarantee that a teacher's application for a non-B visa will be successful.

So under the new rules (coming in August) should the teacher's application for a non-B visa be refused, they are then technically 'stranded'. It seems there's no point getting another tourist visa, because you won't be allowed into Thailand?

I may be totally wrong about this - and I hope I am - but don't a lot of schools still operate along these lines when it comes to hiring new teachers?

And then of course, what about those agencies and schools who for whatever reason, just can't get their teachers work permits - and so make their foreign teachers do border run after border run. Those days are gone. Or they will be very soon.

We'd love to hear from you. Does your school hire new foreign teachers and send them on a visa run to a neighboring country? Are you a new teacher in a difficult situation yourself? Is your teaching job a perpetual cycle of border hops and what does your employer plan to do now? What is your interpretation of the new rule changes?

Let us know your thoughts.

Ajarn.com

I've been working at a government college for the last 5 months. While my school has kept good on the salary and pay me on time every month, the paperwork wasn't delivered on time as promised and I have had to do costly visa runs. The school has covered some of the costs, but I still have to put in lengthy travel time, and pay for food and lodging.

At first, these seemed like mini-vacations, but - as time goes on - I look forward to a visa run like a meal of bugs. This, however, isn't the main issue. I have stuck it out as I love the students and most of my co-workers. The college has its strengths. The issues I have been dealing with are those few teachers (and my immediate supervisor) who don't bother to communicate when a class is cancelled or changed, or even more recently - school cancelled for an entire day.

The idea of co-teaching is a joke. My Thai co-teachers see it as a period off where they can rest. Often they don't even show. I have no books or materials. Sometimes the classes are over 40 students and the projector isn't working or I am in a room with no AC. While many teachers have been kind and caring, it is the few who aren't and usually the ones that matter the most.

I don't care about the pay that much, but if you shortchange me on respect, I get frustrated and eventually resentful. I have my Masters Degree in Education. I don't expect to get treated better because of it, but I won't put up with being treated like a stray dog. I genuinely care about my students, and show up on time every time. At this point my school wants to give me a year contract, but I think it is Byeland to Thailand time.

Brenda

On the topic of Thai classroom assistants and are they useful to a foreign teacher? I have six teachers with me. (One for each level that I teach.) They are all different and they all need to be treated differently. One of them watches my lessons attentively and is up like a shot to help me through something if she thinks my class doesn't get it. We work well together as a team. Another teacher considers this another 'free' period and doesn't ever even show up! The remaining four have levels of involvement in between these two extremes!

I work well with all of them and don't have any problems at all. The reason is that I work with what they give me. If they want to get involved then they can and if they want to slope off and hide, then that's fine too. Farang teachers usually create their own problems with other teachers. Often they don't see how bloody annoying they are! They stumble through their relationships with other members of staff because they don't think that other staff members are important. Or they think that they know better in the classroom and eagerly embrace every opportunity to prove it.

Occasionally there may be genuine cases of personality conflicts, but I've never seen one where the Thai teacher was the one being a dick. The point is that Thai teachers are what they are. They vary wildly in terms of ability and commitment. You learn to work with the tools in the toolbox.

Khru Mark

I had never been to Thailand before. I thought that there was a real possibility that I might be picked up in an Ox cart. I was relieved to be picked up by someone from the school when I arrived in Bangkok. I had trouble using the payphone. I never was able to figure out how to use it. The heat and the food took quite some time to get used to. After living a year in Thailand. I realized how much I missed the American hamburger.

I first heard people talking about Thailand when I was teaching English in South Korea. At the time, I had no desire to vacation there. But after living in Thailand, I've realized that it really is a nice place to vacation. I really enjoyed the beautiful beaches Thailand had to offer. For the most part my teaching experience was a pleasant one. I only had some difficulties on occasion at the school that I taught at. I enjoyed teaching the children and making them laugh. One thing I found convenient were the state trains.

Chachoengsao is located between Bangkok and Pattaya. When the protests started taking place in Bangkok in November. I didn't go back to Bangkok until much later due to the violence and political gatherings. This is when I started spending time in Pattaya on the weekend. I was told in January that they would not be renewing my contract. I went looking for another English teaching position. I was unable to find a new English teaching position.

Not quite the Land of Smiles, although most of the people were pleasant. I expected to see people smiling more. I felt like I had smiled more than the local population. The children I taught smiled. They were generally happy. I think it must be a very hard life for many Thai people. Working along side Western teachers put me at ease when I first started working in Thailand. I hope in the future I am able to return to Thailand and teach English once again.

Mr. Cooper

While it is sometimes a long road to getting the so called yellow card (I have) the next hurdle is the renewal. Mine is up for renewal this month and my principal says I have to go to Bangkok to renew it. Thai teachers say the local TCT is where to go here in Khon Kean or the province that you're in. Then again some Thai teachers have been making the trip to Bangkok because they don't know what the rules are. Can someone shed light on this for me? My school said no problem they would take care of it - but I don't always think they can or do.

Teacher in Khon Kean

Regarding 'New law regarding work permits for teachers' (Ajarn Postbox, 12th May) It is my understanding that:

If you have an education degree and have completed the TELC course (Thai ethics, language and culture - AKA culture course) you can get your teacher's license (yellow card).

If you have a non-education degree, have completed the TELC course and passed the TCT tests you can get your license (and no longer need the provisional permit).

If you can show professional development (considerable work toward your PGCE / B.Ed/M.Ed) you MAY get a 3rd provisional permit (provided you will complete the course before the permit expires).

If you have done nothing (or done nothing other than enroll) then two work permits is the limit and you are done as a teacher.

This has a significant impact on teachers who change schools since each time you change employers (assuming you had a work permit) you use up one of your two allotted provisional permits. This can use up both permits in as short a time as two semesters. By staying at the same school that period can be up to 4 years (2 permits of 2 years each).

To the best of my knowledge this affects all schools covered under OBEC and all schools covered under the Private Schools Act.

Dave