I have been in awe of your website since I started teaching in Thailand. The information that this website gives teachers and potential teachers is invaluable. However I would like to see you take a stand for teachers and stop allowing schools to advertise ridiculous salaries. And they are getting more and more ridiculous. Just today I saw salaries for full-time teachers at 15-20K baht! Outrageous! Please stop accepting these ads to help force these schools and thieving agencies to pay a liveable wage. Thank you.

Max

I am a qualified teacher, I hold an MA and have been teaching successfully in Thailand for 6 years, I wanted a change of scenery and when I saw a job advertised in another area, I applied. I received an e mail back asking me to go and have an interview. I duly attended the interview 3 hours away by car. I was met by a young foreign man who took me into the reception area and there I met with the Thai owner. The foreigner conducted the interview as the Thai owner could not speak English. ( If they had asked me, I would have told them I spoke fluent Thai, but sometimes it pays to keep this quiet ).

Anyhow, the interview was conducted with the interviewer looking and speaking at the floor for the entire ten minutes I was there. They did not want to see my credentials. The main problem was that to employ me, I had to pay them 6,000 THB for a 12-hour course Thai culture course. I asked who ran the course and the interviewer announced to the floor tiles that he did. Turns out if you don't pay, you don't get a job, no matter what your experience or qualifications. Incidentially they were looking for 12 teachers, all of which would have had to pay the 6,000 baht - a total of 72,000 THB for a 2 day course - so not a bad profit.
Two days later, I got a phone call from them saying if I didn't want to attend the course, they could cover the cost cover. But I still had to pay 6,000 baht course or no course. Sorry. I wasn't born yesterday.

Rose

Dear Phil (“Supply and Demand” – Postbox 31st March) Kudos for recognizing my facetious use of an embellishment. As my mother used to say, “I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate.” Of course we all form our opinions based on personal experience. Subsequently, my personal experiences have given me a somewhat different opinion than your own. It does make me happy to hear that you can recall working as a teacher, and that you enjoyed such a rosy time of it. Like yourself, I can recall the “halcyon period” you refer to. However, I personally know of at least six good language schools that closed up shop in fear of these “nonsensical” rules when they were first implemented. How dare the Thai government expect the guests that they pay to teach their children should actually have to learn something about the culture of the students or, even worse, to pass an “impossible” competency test.

Having spouted my sarcastic rant, I would like to reiterate the main point of my original reply to Ronald. Namely that, supply and demand will always dictate the price of any product including labour. Of course any intelligent debate must have a basis in disagreement, and I do ever so enjoy educated criticism. Although you and I may “disagree completely” as to the reasons Phil, I’m sure you must admit that there are simply more candidates for teaching jobs now than in the past. Not only does the increase in traffic volume that your website has enjoyed attest to this, but yes, “statistics are available” to those willing to research them

Further, because or although we differ in our life experiences, I personally feel that these rules to which we both refer have been greatly relaxed and ignored of present, while you may not. The fact, in my opinion, is that due to the rampant, government sponsored racism that exists in Thailand, practically any unqualified, white farang can get a job teaching English here while many competent and educated teachers of dark skinned races cannot. The tone of the majority of letters posted on your site would seem to bear this out.

I would venture that, as myself, those of us still presently teaching English here in Thailand can think of current examples of this disparity. As well, I would go so far as to suggest that most of us have worked with, or know of, at least one holder of a “Khao San Road diploma” whom presently is teaching English here. This of course adds to that age-old market determiner of supply and demand, and is the point I was attempting to make.

Surely you must agree Phil that it is “always dangerous” for any party to force their opinion on others, but even more so for one in an editorial position. But that’s just my “distorted perspective” and I do concede, and strongly defend, your right to form your own.

Dan

Dear Ronald ('How did salaries drop so much - Postbox 28th March)
It's called supply and demand. Six years ago there weren't half as many so called, "English Teachers", in Thailand as there are now. Also, schools were running scared of the new regulations that were implemented at that time concerning qualifications. But, as enforcement has relaxed, even the most prestigious schools are willing to overlook and accept a Khao San road diploma. This has opened the door for all of the party tourists to extend their stay in the Kingdom by simply having another beer while their diploma, complete with transcripts, is printed up by a street vendor. Thus resulting in a glut of candidates willing to work for nothing more than a non-immigrant B. And of course the, "Language Centres", that sell diplomas that aren't worth the paper they're printed on, are enjoying a new flood of cheap, smiling, white faces to sell to their client/students.

Phil says - It's always dangerous to come out with a statement such as 'six years ago, there weren't half as many English teachers here as there are now" when you have no statistics to draw on. And there are certainly no statistics available for the number of foreign teachers working in Thailand at any given time. I actually disagree with you completely. I think six years ago was the 'halcyon period' for English teachers in Thailand. There was none of this culture course nonsense or the need to pass impossible tests. Literally anyone could get a teaching job. Not many folks would say that it has now become easier for teachers, especially the unqualified, to secure a teaching position. I think you are viewing things from your own rather distorted perspective and ignoring the big picture.

Ajarnallo

I first came to Thailand nearly 6 years ago. My first job after I got my CELTA started at 39,000 baht. I've subsequently held posts paying 35,000, 38,000, 42,500, 38,000 and 40,000 baht (in order of the post). Overall, my average has been nearly 39K.

I went home for six months and have now been back in Thailand for five months. As I look for my new job, I am astonished at how many jobs are paying around 30,000 only. I know the job posting says, "At least 30,000." But after I applied and got a response from the few, they informed me that the job starts at 30,000. And so often when I click a job posting to read more about it, that "at least" in the heading turns out to say "around 30,000," or "starts at 30-32,000," etc. I interviewed last week with one of these schools hoping it was a typo. The guy offered me a contract at 30,000. When I queried him about it, he actually said, "Yeah, but we give you accident coverage up to 20,000 baht, so if you get hurt, it will make a big difference in your pay." What? So I need to suffer an injury to add to my pay? And I'm not talking about just a few postings. It seems nearly all (estimate 85-90%) of the postings I read have 30K listed.

What in the blazes has happened to the salaries? Yes, 30K is a lot by Thai standards. But the level of education in this country is minimal and it is largely a traditional economy with low expectations, so the low-average wage is expected. But 40K is not a particularly high salary for someone with a proper degree, a CELTA, professional experience going back over 15 years, and over five years of teaching experience in Thailand. I didn't come to Thailand to save money for retirement. I didn't come expecting to live high on the hog. But I do expect a reasonable wage based on my education and experience.

I guess it's time to look at Japan, Korea, China, and other places to get some respect. Although I'm not 60, like our friend Kevin in the letter below, perhaps I'll be joining him as he widens his search for a job that will respect him and his abilities.

Ronald

Sadly, the older you get, the harder it seems to be able to get a job. Its crazy... all those years of experence and life skills just being ignored. How about setting up an education facility, with obvious suitable educational and business support ( a few independant UK schools and universities) have looked at this idea to make use of the skills that many older teachers have.

We all become unemployable at some stage. Myself I have worked freelance now for well over 10 years. Its given me a great income when times are good, but a little more tough when times are hard. I'm considered totally unemployable by many companies, because I have seen life from the other side. I have become a threat to all those who just loaf their way through life. Its a case of maybe I will ask to many difficult questions, or know too many answers. I'm not a brain washed product of a company HR or PR society. I can think for myself and actually make improvements....Oh that's dangerous... Bangkok dangerous even!

For Kevin.... sorry, it looks like you will have to start your own business, or go freelance or just move on... I hear Korea, China and Japan have a need for the more senior teacher, plus they pay very well. Good luck all the same.

Ian BKK

It seems that it is almost impossible for me to gain another teaching position in Thailand (in government schools and universities) as I have recently turned 60. This is due to a Dept of Education rule. There's nothing I can do about this, but what I want to complain about is that it took me quite some time to find out. Why? Because all of my applications were greeted with silence - i.e. employers simply did not bother replying to my applications. I understand that in Thai culture it's difficult to say "no" but this is ridiculous, not to mention somewhat distressing. I am committed to living in Thailand (I have a Thai wife) but as I have no other income, what can I do? If anyone knows a way out of this dilemma, I'd love to hear about it.

Kevin O'Donnell

As in all western countries, English is taught for profit in Thailand, and advertising of any product world-wide uses beauty and youth to promote products.
However, if you want an education in any subject, it is only logical to learn from an expert that has been doing said subject all of their life. One of my biggest pet peeves is the fact that English is presently being taught by so called, "teachers", that can not even use the language properly themselves. Of course one must recognise that this is due to the age old market determiner of supply and demand. As there are more English teaching positions in Thailand then qualified teachers, of course many institutions have no recourse but to employ substandard instructors. Students are customers and as such they demand quality products for their money. Is it really so surprising then that an employer would want to hire the most qualified candidates for any poisition?

Ajarnallo

I would like to chip into this debate and just put down a few of the thoughts I have in writing.
Surely there must be the element in institutions where English is taught for profit in Thailand, that they want to adorn their business prospectus with a young and handsome or beautiful white face. Look at advertising material from the British Council, the websites for schools in Western countries on the net, and even the most popular commercial EFL textbooks. Plenty of such faces feature there as well. Even if they are not white, they are still usually young and beautiful. It is standard practice because beauty appeals to the eye of the beholder, and because beauty thus sells.

There is surely the element too that these education-for-profit institutions care not for the actual quality of education they provide, or that it at least plays second fiddle to looking good. And look, particularly in Thailand, is still very much the state that society is in. If true substance counted for much there would have to be a major social upheaval – because their owners and operators probably do not know anything about what constitutes quality education (again, Thailand all over) They are fixated with getting bums on seats. So yeah, who would not want to complain about this. There is definitely injustice afoot. For sure, they would pass over someone who was a native-born citizen of an English speaking country and an excellent teacher on the grounds of their appearance, in much the same way as they are going to rob mums and dads blind, and milk kids like cows by opening candy shops at the front of the school.

On the other hand, the law of averages dictates that there is some advantage in going for the young white person. Which is something we do not hear a lot about. Scientific enlightenment – some famous scientific wit, I cannot recall who, called enlightenment, or, as Jared Diamond puts it, ‘the shift from speculation to rationalisation’, that ‘little thing that happened a couple of hundred years ago that a lot of people have not heard much about’, or words to that effect, 55 - has brought about profound change in Western society, not least in terms of the quality of education. This change for the good, in terms of knowledge, at least, has accelerated since the advent of the information age. You pick white, and you pick young, and you are, if fathoming other indicators of teacher quality is beyond you, in a way maximising your chances of picking someone who is a native speaker of English who has a modern Western education.

This is surely what the parents of Thailand are thinking when they discriminate in this way. Not all the people who cry ‘racism’ and ‘ageism’ are being entirely reasonable themselves, are they, the cynic in me demands the concept be at least lent a little consideration. In regards to the ‘ageism’ thing in particular, yeah, the term was coined originally to describe how employable people can dip out on getting a job because of their age – but in all fairness to young people (and I am 40, if you wonder), does not discrimination on the basis of age for the most part work the other way in society? And is there not great injustice afoot when you think of all the people who were not life-long learners, and who are representative of pre-information age and far more ignorant times – who are steeped in the mores of more primitive states of society – who stand over young, well educated people, and perpetually find fault with them to bolster their own very, very false feelings of superiority? As if it does not happen! It is a central pillar of primitive human society that ‘age is wisdom’…

Finally here, there is the element too that Thai people are racist. Black is bad, to not possess the physiology of the ruling class is bad. The mould you were born in in many ways dictates your quality in society, rather than the nature of your intelligence (what you have learned). Again, they are in that state of society where to even consider the injustice of this is to ‘kid leuk’, or think deeply, and by association with this term in the Thai mind think too much, and be in need of a good cup of hemlock. For most people, of course, not all, just as it is in the West. They are light years away from actually creating and, more to the point, enforcing policy that is going to shake people out of their stupor. So this is definitely unfair as well. No wonder the victims complain.

Fair go

Maybe my point of Hooters was lost in the fact that I used Hooters. I'll give you another example. A local school in America was hiring a Spanish teacher. They had the audacity to put in their ad that they wanted a teacher who was from Spain. That just made me so angry. That meant, just because I wasn't a sexy sleek man from Spain, that I couldn't have the job?

So, I filed a complaint with the school district, and I forced the school to change their ad. It now read, "looking for Spanish teacher, all welcome to apply" Unfortunately, I still didn't get the job even though I have a PHD in Spanish from Harvard University. Seems like they were really serious about wanting a native speaker of Spanish and I just wasted my time, and so did a lot of other people who needlessly applied, and of course so did the poor HR staff who had to read through thousands of resumes needlessly.

So, once again I got angry. I complained to the school board that if the school only wants a native speaker of Spanish from Spain, then they should put that in the job advert and not waste my time. I then held a small riot and burned down three houses and smashed some cars. I also stood out side the local Spanish restaurant in town and hurled insults at al those inside.

Joe hoeson