Patrick
Working in Don Mueang, but when I walk my dogs we cross into Phatum Thani
Monthly Earnings 240,000 to 300,000 a month
Q1. How is that income broken down? (full-time salary, private students, on-line teaching, extra work, etc)
Monthly Earnings 70,000 to 80,000 (me), + 100,000 to 130,000 (wife) + 70,000 to 90,000 (Money from savings, investments, etc.) so 240,000 to 300,000
Q2. How much money can you save each month?
Around 50,000 to 150,000 a month, but expenses are unusually high. Most of the savings is in the form of paying off our expensive 30 year mortgage, in 7 years we have paid 85% of it off. When a certain amount of money accumulates, we go and pay off another month. I hate paying interest
Q3. How much do you pay for your accommodation and what do you live in exactly (house, apartment, condo)?
55,000 a month mortgage. We began building our dream house in 2014, on land we bought in 2008. We ended up taking a 30 year mortgage in 2017. We often pay more than required, to eat into the principle. My house is very, very nice.
Q4. What do you spend a month on the following things?
Transportation
Maybe 8,000 to 10,000. We own a 16 year old Avanza, a 10 year old CRV, and confiscated a tiny honda that is about 10 years old from a family member (cousin mentioned later) who should not be driving. All cars are paid off. We live in the suburbs but teach either in ThaPhraChan or out past Future Park, so we drive long distances, and use tolls. My wife also uses taxis a lot for her trips downtown on project business
Utility bills
Call it 10,000-15,000 – it is a large house, with many people, and I like AC. But this covers electricity (more than half), water, phones, internet, streaming services, etc.
Food - both restaurants and supermarket shopping
About 30,000 a month. We don’t go out that much anymore, but I do like me some beer(s) in the evenings, she likes shrimp and fancy food, and we are basically price indifferent at this point.
Nightlife and drinking
Covered in food section.
Books, computers
We both get money for this from our jobs, which works out to 3,500 a month – which we periodically spend. Add another 2,000 a month for new phones, or other toys – Call it 6,000 a month total
And now I am going to add two more needed categories, this seems the best place
The help
Nurse/Maid (13,000), maid (17,000), part time gardener (6,000), and the other nurse/maid (13,000) = 49,000 a month, more when we take care of their family emergencies, healthcare, etc.
Family Expenses and Obligations
My wife’s father lives with us, and has since 2017. He is 96 years old, blind (for 30 years), and very frail. He gets 11,000 a month in pensions, and has some insurance from his former job (he worked for the government). At this point it is a mystery as to how he is still alive. This costs us a lot of money, aside from the costs of the help, lots of trips to the emergency room, routine trips, etc. This adds a bunch more money, and also takes up a huge amount of time – not because we are always at the hospital, but because at any moment we might have to drop everything and go to it.
Ohh, and my wife also has an elderly cousin who is suffering from dementia. She lived with us for a year during covid, we renovated her house, and got her a nurse/maid (covered in “The help”), and now she stays with us about two months, then her house 3-4 months, then back with us. This also costs money... and time. And aggravation as she wasn’t that nice to begin with, but it is what it is.
Should also mention health insurance, and health care for ourselves, it all probably averages to 15,000 for our health care, and another 10,000 for everybody else
Q5. How would you summarize your standard of living in one sentence?
Maybe 15 years ago, sitting at a table with 4-5 westerners, one of them began talking about how he got rejected for a loan to buy his dream bike, a Ducati, because he was delinquent on his loan for his Mercedes-Benz. Problem was, he hadn’t bought one. His wife’s brother had done so using his name, for his little wife, they had a fight and she drove it into a canal rather than return it, and he stopped making payments.
We all had a good “we feel bad for you/but also a good laugh” at it. And then I smugly said “Glad I married an only child”.
The oldest one at table replied “should have married an orphan”.
All things considered, great. We didn’t earn huge money, but we definitely earned good money, and managed it well. The family obligations (and uncertainty about it) is stressful. Most of that stress falls on my wife, she would not say great.
Q6. What do you consider to be a real 'bargain' here?
Anything involving labor. I would call an electrician to change the light bulb, if my wife would allow it. Rental costs are cheap, buying a house less so but still better than the U.S. Street food is getting more expensive, but still cheap, and the basic stuff at a market is much cheaper than a supermarket, once you figure it all out.
A beautiful garden – if you own a house. Travel around the country. Really good food, at the right restaurant. Foot or full massages. Great dogs here cost a pork chop, my U.S. friends pay 50,000 baht plus for a dog which strikes me as insane. Teak furniture, plants, any handmade products.
Much of the above depends on if you are visiting Thailand, or moving to it. When I arrived here, I understood I would be living here for a (very) long time. I purchased accordingly. The somewhat expensive teak living room set I purchased 18 years ago, I am still sitting on – and the living room set went through the flood.
Q7. In your opinion, how much money does anyone need to earn here in order to survive?
Without savings? Bangkok 30,000, upcountry 20,000.
With savings/a future? I used to say 40,000 for Bangkok, but now I would say 50,000. And that is without much savings.
Long term: I am aiming to retire soon, with a large house fully paid off, and 100,000 a month in mostly investment income. You simply can’t reach that at 50,000 a month no matter how much you scrimp and save. O.K. maybe if you started at 20 years old, and follow through till you are 60. But that would still be hard.
Other thoughts:
I moved to Thailand in 2004, and earned 20,000 or so a month teaching SAT prep classes. But I got a one class side job at a university where my wife worked. When the SAT job ended, I started teaching multiple classes at the university. Monthly income averaged 43,000 in 2006 (when I first started tracking it), 48,000 in 2007, in 2009 I finished my dissertation, and my salary jumped up. I have earned 70,000-80,000 a month since then – though my work load has fallen over that time.
My wife earned more over most of this period. Also from 2004 to 2014, we had passive income from a restaurant in in the U.S., which took care of all our debt in the U.S. But I always saved 40 - 50% of my income. My wife usually did as well.
Phil's analysis and comment
Thank you Patrick for such a detailed analysis and also a very interesting read. I hope people won't stop reading as soon as they see your salary and think 'oh here's another rich teacher' because that's certainly not the whole story. There's a lot of stress going on in the background and your overheads are eye-watering. Thanks so much for sharing.
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