In response to James letter (Food for thought, Postbox 25th November) As far as I'm aware the EU would not 'look after' a citizen of another country, even a citizen of the EU. What is it you do with your 30/40 or 50k baht a month? Well I never got to that stage so I can't comment. Do you think China is any different? Well one would hope so. The infrastructure should be and I'm avoiding Shenzhen as it sits on a river delta, though I can't count for typhoons of course.

Do you think you can come here with 1,000 baht straight off the plane, never have a problem and just live the good life? I sympathize, but if you intend to live from pay day to pay day, (and just concentrate on having a good time in between) then surely the financial position you’re in is yours and not anyone else’s?

Well there is more to this than meets the eye. In my case I was on the dole in London and had I not taken a decision to move, I would have been dead there too. I knew I had a greater chance of work in Asia. My bank of 30 years would not loan me for interim costs e.g. deposit - so I funded myself out of my savings. But then I got hit by a series of events; having to buy on onward ticket for the visa run and forking out two months deposit for a condo - some or all of which I might not get back. As you say we have no rights here. Some of it is my fault but I got put off going to China initially by reading too many 'negative' forum posts.

Don’t you ever think you’re going to get sick, get older or just for any other reason be unemployed in Asia? In other words, have you ever thought beyond your next pay check and what might happen if it doesn’t materialize? Yes James but in my case it is a case of starting from scratch (in China) and hoping that it all works out. Food for thought indeed.

Kelvin

To Aaron (the guy with the degree in comparative literature)
Hi Aaron, you will need to get in touch with me before I put your 'letter' in the ajarn Postbox. To be honest, the letter was a bit too long and dare I say it, a little 'heavy' in paragraphs. I would like to see it edited and simplified if possible. Can you contact me at philip@ajarn.com and I can send you the original post back.

Phil / ajarn.com

Just a bit about myself so you get some perspective. I worked in Thailand for two years during the mid 2000's. I was at a school in Bangkok. I'd come to Thailand for a change having worked 4 solid years in South Korea. I quickly noticed the differences in how I was treated by school's administrative staff from both countries. In short, South Koreans were efficient and knew what they were doing most of the time. Thailand was the "Wild South East." No housing, low pay, long hours and the school wanted me to punch in on a clock like some factory worker every morning before smiling to parents and children. Luckily, I loved teaching enough to put up with the hoops and obstacles put before me. I stayed two years and left.

I am not surprised some teachers are being told by Thai schools that they will not receive money for the time they didn't work during the floods. The safety net is for the Thais, not the falang. If you've been there long enough, you should know the pecking order by now. You're at the bottom of it, mate, pure and simple. I've read some comments about Acts of God in the contract. Thai contracts (insert long laugh here) I actually saved my first contract with a Thai school as a memento. It was on legal paper, about five pages long with a lot of clauses. I keep it in a file the way a tourist might keep a keychain purchased on Khao Sarn Road. It's merely a trinket. I'm going to add fuel to the fire for the moaners and whiners by saying they should argue that the floods were not acts of God, but several little acts of demi-gods, namely the Thaksin family. But I digress. If a man destroys a "big bag" that was holding back water, does it become an act of God? I'll let the lawyers sort that one out.

This next point is going to be a bit tricky, but here goes. If you are working in Thailand as a teacher, you're not really a teacher are you. I mean, you wake up and put on a shirt and tie and you may even have a university degree, but you're just there because you like the sun, the cheap beer and entertainment. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll listen. Mother Nature threw you a curveball this year and now suddenly your meager salary can't afford you the lifestyle you expected. Or you had to piss it away on hotels and travel because your school and/or house was inundated. I feel your pain. I really do. I hope you had a backup plan and cash to help you through your lean months, (it was only a few months, right?) a plan that didn't include stomping and sloshing your feet all the way to Suvanabumi saying, "Oh, I'll show you! China will be better!"

I suspect during this time of flooding in Bangkok, school administrators switched off their mobiles and hid. What sweet Thai woman who has done her time at the institution wants to address angry falang? Tell me how many miscommunications from your school you had to deal with, wrong dates for return, general misinformation. Again, I feel your pain. Well, it's up to you to decide whether you'll fight or take flight. I wish you the best.

Jimmy

I would suggest that we remove our European (and U.S) socialist blinkers and learn to accept that the world, or the schools in this instance, do not owe you anything except a wage for teaching. The schools did not force teachers out of Bangkok, the floods did. Perhaps you expect the owners of your accommodation to pay your rent too, or your local restaurant to offer you free food? They won’t, the floods are not their fault either. The schools are not there to ‘take a risk’, they are your employers, full stop. Schools are not your social workers; what happens outside the school is none of their concern and neither should it be. If the transport industry went on strike, would you still expect the school to pay you for not being able to get to school?

No Thais would be offended about my attitude because my previous letter inferred ‘foreigners’ having no social safety net and few rights, not Thais. Some schools are paying and some aren’t? Some are OK and some not? Isn’t that life? All this is OK because it’s Thailand and not some ‘cradle to the grave’ socialist republic that we have got used to in the UK and Europe where we need assistance to wipe our own backsides! Once you’re back in Europe don’t worry, you’ll be the same as everyone else, nobody taking risks, everybody equal and reduced down to the lowest common denominator. Is that what you want; equality, protection, rights?

You’re in the wrong part of the world and need to learn to stand on your own two feet and understand that life is what you make it and not what others make for you. Rely on yourself, learn to look after yourself, plan ahead and you wouldn’t be in the position you’re in now. Isn’t that right? Instead of whinging and complaining that it’s all so unfair.

Keith, the school laughed at him because his request is so preposterous. Why would they pay you for not working? Have you ever tried to explain to a Thai the concept of the welfare state? You know, the part where you don’t work, don’t pay for accommodation and own a colour TV and stereo system? Yes, there is a social security net in place for Thais, my point being that there isn’t for foreigners and so wasn’t it better to be aware of the fact before blowing every months income and then complaining when an emergency arises and you haven’t got any money? I can only speak for myself and everybody I know; the contracts I signed ‘are’ translated into English and if you sign one in Thai and can’t understand a word it says, then what does that say about you? The fact that they’re not worth the paper they’re written on is neither here nor there. If you don’t agree, don’t sign and go back to a country that does write them in plain and easy to understand English. Those ‘are’ the facts, unpalatable, none socialist and common sense ones. At the end of the day there are some easy answers. Move on or move out!

Gareth, yes, I agree, let’s hear from the wonderful schools out there in Thailand. I'm afraid it might be a good country to live in but looking through the letters I think you'll struggle to find the positive aspects of working in Thailand.

James

When you're smiling. The whole world smiles with you. Doesn't anyone teaching here have a great story that they want to share with other readers? Surely the whole Thailand teaching population didn't get stiffed out of its flood pay? Surely not everyone works for a terrible school or a horrible boss or wants to go teach in China because they've had enough of this godawful place? Someone put a smile on our faces - please! Tell us about the school finance officer who rowed through two metres of crocodile-infested floodwater to make sure you received your monthly salary in your hand. Or what about the academic director who called you on the phone every day to make sure you were still alive and assured you that you would be paid in full as soon as the floodwaters subsided. Come on guys! - those stories must be out there. Thailand's a wonderful country to live and work in.

Gareth

In reply to Kevin O’Donnell (Unemployable at age 60, Postbox 23rd March 2011) I am coming up to your age and yes, the opportunities are a little thin on the ground. You ask if there is any way out of this dilemma and again yes, there is.

Firstly and I say this with respect, look like a teacher and not like someone’s favourite uncle – ditch the facial hair! Secondly, you ‘are’ in demand even at 60 – try China! Seriously, the hours are minimal, the students extremely well disciplined and behaved and on a one year contract I’d be surprised if you couldn’t expect to save in the region of 150 to 200k baht. Like you, my home is in Thailand but I doubt whether I’d ever punish myself by working there again. Also, the vast majority of Chinese schools and universities have no objection to you bringing your spouse with you for the length of the contract, (not girlfriends).

Thailand; it is you who will suffer as your children become the poor educational relations of Asia. You are already near, if not at the bottom of the educational Asian league table. While you concentrate on your classroom ‘activities’ and the young ‘20 somethings’, (or the ancient 40’s), your education system collapses around your proverbial ears! It all looks so nice; everybody pretends they’re happy and the relative few are making a lot of money out of it, so why change? In the end Thailand, as disillusioned foreigners leave, your tourist industry collapses and the current crop of teachers grow older and are replaced by smiling backpackers, or recession refugees happy to join the treadmill for their 30k pay, you will stay a developing country.

James

In response to the letter written by James (Food for thought Postbox 25th November) I have several points I would like to bring up. Firstly, James you completely missed the point what Mike Walker wrote in his article. He was annoyed by the fact that the staff at his school laughed at him when he asked about being paid, and so would most people with a brain. Secondly, there is social security system in place in Thailand, but only for Thais. Next, Most contracts here are written in Thai and even if you ask the school to translate the contract into English the translation isn't accurate. Besides that the contract isn't worth the paper it is written on anyway! James, I suggest that you get your facts right!

Keith

Regarding James' letter - (Food for thought, Postbox 25th November) My contract doesn't state anywhere about non-payment for acts of God or civil unrest, etc. My contract was as clear as day. My school still tried it on, but I fought them and got my salary. If your contract does state this and you've signed it, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on. I'm sure many contracts will now be amended. It only took 50 years. What about all the teachers forced out of Bangkok? The ones paying for hotels not knowing what is happening. Many schools haven't even bothered to help their teachers in the slightest. Just kept them in the dark and hope no one will say anything. Not even a phone call to ask 'are you okay?'.

I agree people should have savings, and 'some' teachers should stop living so carelessly - but at the end of the day, why is it okay for businesses that employ these teachers to only make profit and not take any risk? Why are some teachers taking the risk while the agency/school takes little or no risk.? It's not about people needing to be taken care of. It's about doing the right thing. To say we live in a country with no social safety and not many rights does not justify some schools' behaviour. I'm sure many Thai people would be offended with this attitude.

I know many companies here who are paying their absent Thai/foreign staff in full. Some are even paying for hotels for their staff. So stop with this 'this is Thailand' attitude. It all boils down to 'money over morals'.

Liam

I do understand the financial position that some are in regarding the recent floods, but stop short of agreement. Firstly, doesn’t your contract state that you won’t be paid for ‘Acts of God’ and those involving specifically floods, civil unrest, etc.? Mine did, so I’m just left wondering if yours didn’t. You did read yours didn’t you or didn’t you bother and just signed, or simply just didn’t care?

Secondly, why should the school pay? It is hardly the schools fault that the floods occurred. Having said that yes; morally it might have been better if they had at least offered half pay, but they didn’t and they’re not legally obliged to do so. Aren’t we trying to compare ourselves to a western situation here and insist that the employer, or the government or somebody else pay whatever the reason of absence from employment? We are all aware that there is no social security for us here and also that no work equals no pay. Why has it come as a surprise?

Thirdly and finally, you live in a country on the other side of the world, with no social safety net and not many rights. Yes, if you need to be ‘looked after’ then perhaps a return to the EU is your best option. What is it you do with your 30/40 or 50k baht a month? Blow it all and live from day to day? How much do you put away for reasons exactly like this, or insurance, or medical care, or just simply for unknown emergencies? Do you think China is any different? Do you think you can come here with 1000 baht straight off the plane, never have a problem and just live the good life?

I sympathize, but if you intend to live from pay day to pay day, (and just concentrate on having a good time in between), then surely the financial position you’re in is yours and not anyone else’s? Don’t you ever think you’re going to get sick, get older or just for any other reason be unemployed in Asia? In other words, have you ever thought beyond your next pay check and what might happen if it doesn’t materialize? Food for thought.

James

I am with you Mike. I have no choice but to jump for China and hope I can land a job with accommodation provided. I will also lose 9500 baht deposit because the condo owner won't acknowledge the flood as a legitimate reason to vacate - in other words easy money for them. I asked the British embassy for advice about this and you've guessed it - just a list of solicitors - as if I could afford one. But it is better than trying to pay December and January rent and another visa run - whereby I don't even know if I'll get back in the country! It is a very frustrating and stressful time where I should be easily able to live comfortably here but am now lunching on cheap pastries from 7-11 - and I came here to better my chances of work rather than languish on the dole at home. I wish I had chanced the EU now; if anything it would have got rid of the constant need and uncertainty of visa runs.

Kelvin