I could never quite figure it out. They give me a one-year visa, and then tell me to come back every 90 days to confirm I am still here. One of the mysteries of the Land of Smiles, I guess. But my 4th 90-day slip runs out about a week ahead of my year-long visa. Last year the secretary phoned the visa office and asked if it would be ok to let it ride for the extra week until I came to do the visa, and they said fine, and no problems later. This year we did the same thing. And then when we showed up for the new visa, and gave them the 90-day renewal form, they got all huffy about the law is the law - and nailed me for 2000 baht because it was about a week late. I've also been tagged 600 baht per for my last couple of Amazon parcels - maybe there's a new 'steal from the farangs at every opportunity' drive going on - just a heads up to be sure to dot your i's and like that if you're thinking of letting a 90-dayer go for a few days.

Dave Patterson

This is a real story. I have two and half years experience teaching in Thailand. I took a contract in good faith through an agency in Songkhla. Postion English Teacher, 11 month contract, 32,000Baht per month. Sounds fair. Start teaching May 17th. Workers from the agency come to the school to sign a contract and copies of my paperwork to enable processing of work permit and Non-immigrant B visa. I then completed my one month probation. I enquire as to when my visa and work permit will be ready. Soon I was told. I then got E-mails from the agency asking for all paperwork from teachers. I contacted the office and my paperwork was fine. July passes but still no word on the visa and work permit.

I had a current Non-B up to the 8th August. I got a note from the agency. We will complete your Visa/WP on Wed 4th Aug, Please contact the office to confirm availability. I did so numerous times, only to be told I needed to speak with the Thai manager. She did not answer my calls. Morning of Aug 4th still no word. I sent an SMS at 9:20am that morning informing that they would complete the paperwork on Fri 6th Aug. After completing my classes that morning I arrived at the office of the agency. I got a phone call from manager, "Don't tell the Work Permit staff that you work for this agency or this school, you must say you work for this school". Hmmm sounded a bit odd. I got to the work permit office to recieve a WP until the end of Sept, not March 2011 as agreed on my English contract.

I enquire as to where my Thai contract is. The agency had only made a Thai contract until the end of Sept. To top things off I was not being paid until the 3rd of each month also with 1400Baht being deducted for tax and social security. (I pay for) This month September I wait until the 3rd to be paid. No money. No phone call no SMS,but an E-Mail sent at 1pm that day stating that we won't be paying you until we have your assessments. Hmmm.... semester ends at the end of September, not August. I had completed them anyway and had to wait until the 7th to be paid, with 6,000+Baht deducted without any explanation. I am still waiting for the explanation and for all money to be returned to me.

At the end of the day, if you are not given a Thail contract say within two weeks to one month of commencing work, then leave your job. Be warned! I have numerous E-Mails to confirm the above. I am still waiting to be paid and for my work reference.

Ajarn Andrew

I agree with Phil (Postbox 14th September) Let the low paying schools advertise that they are cheap and only care for profit above your needs. This way you know who they are. Make a list and keep this list near your heart. I have had some really bad experiences with some privates here and I learned a lot about them. Also, be sure when you ask about the pay, learn how they figure out the day rate. Most will also add in Saturday and Sunday when they get ready to pro rate you. My school figures 30 day months when you in fact by contract, only work a maximum of 22 hours. This will keep the rates per day lower if you get ready to leave before pay day or work a few non-contract jobs at 'day rate'. So figure the time you are required to be on site. Usually 8 times 22 for a total of 176hours. Divide 60,000 by 176 and you get just a little over 340 baht an hour. If I made 500 baht an hour I would make 88,000 baht a month. I am not a math teacher so I appologize if I am off, but you get the message.

Paymonger

Amazing Thailand. Last year (2009) I was teaching at an aviation college, teaching aviation engineering, maths, physics, and advanced technical english (all in English) and I was supplying my own teaching aids and precision equipment to adult Thai students who wanted to be involved in aviation in Thailand.
At the time I was being paid per month, well below the standard rate, and I asked for a raise and he offered me an extra 2,000 baht a month. And if I worked overtime he would pay me 50 bt an hour. But get this - when I asked for extra money, he looked at me in disgust and commented "the average thai man gets 6000 a month". So I politely resigned on the spot, and now he has a Thai man teaching what I was teaching, and probably for 6000 baht a month.

Michael

Regarding "Say no to schools paying low rates" (Postbox 14th September) A quick and different take on this is that if you teach five hrs a day at 300B an hour that's 1,500 baht a day. Which is 30,000 a month. Isn't that what a lot of people work for anyway? I know that you probably wont teach five hours a day five days a week but the principle is the same. Very few teachers are actually earning 500B an hour for each hour they are at work, as it would mean they earn about 80,000 a month! Wait up, yeah I'm calling for a union to be set up with demands for an hourly minimum wage!!

James Phillips

I see ads on here from the companies hiring at ESL language centers and test preparation centers for IELTS, TOEFL, TOEIC and SAT's etc but some companies (too many) are stating 200 baht per hour as the pay rate. It costs 40 baht to go from Phrakanong BTS to Sala Deang station which is 80 baht return. Yes I know you can buy a card for less.....But my point is for companies to advertise 200 baht an hour on any site for teaching in Bangkok is a joke and insult to professional teachers.

I have lived here for 11 years and remember when the baht was 42 to a 1USD$ and back then the standard pay rate for test prep work (IELTS etc) was 500baht minimum.....every teacher knew that. Now the cost of living is higher and the pay is lower. I think you should not allow companies to advertise on your site unless it is 500baht an hour. 200 baht an hour is an insult.

Phil's response - Thank you for your comments. I agree with you totally that 200 baht an hour is an insult. I think that 300 baht an hour is an insult. I was earning over 300 baht an hour at a language school 15 years ago! Perhaps these school owners will realise that when they can't attract teachers to work for them, they need to re-think their pay structure. But the emphasis is on the word 'perhaps'

Sorry though, but I have no intention of refusing to post job ads because the likes of you and I deem the pay rate to be too low. I sincerely believe that someone, somewhere needs that job - even at 200 baht an hour.

It's easy for us to say "if no one took the job at 200 baht an hour, then they would have to raise their pay rates" but firstly, things rarely seem to work that way here and secondly, perhaps the teacher who works for 200 baht an hour, does so because that's all they can get. I would rather see a teacher earning 200 baht an hour than having no work at all and wondering where the next meal is coming from.

It's really pretty simple. If you think the pay is too low - then don't apply. We all have that freedom of choice.

Ken

Permitted, should teachers be permitted to throw objects at their students? Should teachers be allowed to cane their students? Well, I hope you're like me and say 100% NO WAY! It does look like some Thai teachers may disagree with me on this because two Thai teachers (both teaching in Nakhon Ratchasima) were both caught within a week doing exactly this. The female teacher was caught throwing a whiteboard eraser at a student, hitting him in the eye. The second, which is more serious was an unqualified male Thai teacher caught on video caning about 40 students. I can only hope that these teachers and any other teachers will always receive the maximum penalty allowed by law if found guility. This is my sincere honest opinion for every teacher on this Earth. No exceptions. Please look at the video on Youtube.

Donald Patnaude

More and more, English teachers in Thailand are seeing ads saying "Teachers Under 45 Wanted"
No English teacher that has spent any time teaching in Thailand is surprised to see job ads in local newspapers saying "Thai national only. Must be 25 years of age or younger, female and attractive". In Thailand, Discriminatory ads like this are completely acceptable and legal. In the last few years though, more and more job ads for western English teachers are stating "must be under 45 years of age". Age discrimination? Sure it is. But why is this acceptable in Thailand and, if you are an older English teacher over 45 years of age, can you still get a teaching job in Thailand?

Why do Thais discriminate against teachers over 45? - Primarily, teaching English in Thailand is all about 'edutainment', meaning if you teach English in Thailand you must be an entertainer as well as an educator. Thais hate to be bored at any time so English class too has to be 'fun'. If it's not fun, they don't pay attention and consequently don't learn anything. But the prevailing thought in Thailand is, for a teacher to be entertaining and fun, they must be young. Not true, but that's the way Thais think.

Secondly, the retirement age in Thailand is 60 years of age and many middle-class Thais retire well before this, in their late 40s and 50s. When I asked 30-something Thai students when they planned on retiring, most of them said by age 45. Asking why so early, the replies I got were most of them figured they wouldn't live much past 60, so they wanted to enjoy retirement age while they could. I was shocked when I heard most didn't expect or want to live past 60 years of age, but this is often because, in Thailand unlike in the west, many elderly people are in very poor health and younger Thais nowadays don't want to be like that. Thus the discrimination against western teachers older than 45 too. Thais are presuming westerners will be frailer in their 50s and 60s like so many Thais are. (In actual fact, this isn't true about modern middle-class Thais either - it's only that many Thais are still living with the mindset their parents had about age in the 1950s and 60s, and it's difficult to change that).

Donald Patnaude

Hello my dear confused friend Tency Tupper. So I get it now. You are saying forget about all the corrupt governments, politicans and those financial institutions around the world that brought us into this worldwide meltdown recession. It is all my fault by placing an article about useless older people who probably had intention to retire in peace and ________ (well you fill in the blank) is all my fault. These so called offical retirees came here to relax and took some viagra and now probably have a Thai girlfriend, who can be like a grand daughter because of age difference, needs to work to support her habits. Please share with me the name and contact information about a school looking for a teacher who is 65 years old and a former bus driver for 23 years after he was paroled from prison because he needs a job quickly while the supply and demand is so great and that he has so much experience with children. Please note that I never said people shouldn't teach after their 60th birthday. I am saying if someone hasn't stepped into a classroom since their university or high school completion should not at the age of 60 years old come here to Thailand and put their resume online and pretend to be a teacher because this is the last thing this wonderful country needs!

Phil says - this topic of when is a teacher too old for the clssroom is always going to be up for heated debate. But if we are going to continue with the topic, I would like to see some impartial input and opinion rather than contributors taking swipes at each other. That's OK on a discussion forum but the ajarn Postbox is not a discussion forum.

Donald Patnaude

In response to Chris Williams. Well, it does seem like at least one farang may disagree with me on my posting of: How old is too old?. Yes I strongly agree with you on some part of your comment like (the best wine comes in old bottles) and just to mention that my Thai father-in-law is now 72 and he still wakes up at 4:30 just so he can walk and jog about 5km. every morning (he has entered many races and other type of competitions in all 76 provinces) and continues to do so.

Now take a good look at your comment and see if you can figure out what is wrong with it Chris. (It should be a case of pure supply and demand. Look at all the vacancies on Ajarn.com and elsewhere. I know of schools who just want ‘a foreigner’ never mind even qualifications, nationality, TEFL certificates, let alone age, fair hair and blue eyes and you’re in). What demand? I will bet that you have been here for less than 3 years. Because I have been here for almost 9 years and the job market or supply and demand, as you call it, has shrunk about 50% in the last 3 years. Therefore the demand can't even justify your comment.

Also, who wins - the 72-year old experienced athlete teaching English in a Thai school or the students who can be rude and cruel to say it politely? Who wins Chris? Surely all the qualified applicants will not benefit and this will just cause more Thai adults as well as students to look down on foreigners much more than they do now. I do want to say that there are a lot of students who are not cruel and rude and are really trying to achieve the best possible education that they can under a broken system.

Donald Patnaude