I am an American qualified teacher who's been living/teaching in Thailand for 16+ years. I read your comment about who is responsible for paying for work permit and visas. You state that there is no legal answer and I beg to differ on that. My present employer made the mistake of reading the legal requirements in Thai and translating them for me. They state that all costs of employment should be borne by the employer. But of course that part of the document was not translated into English. Funny that. I understand that you are here to give information that is generally the rule in Thailand but I would hope that you could also do something to shed light on the exploitative nature of the education "business" in Thailand.

Another note on that is that the same document states clearly the minimum salaries for teachers, based on their country of origin. These are also not followed as I have seen so many schools paying much much less. Government schools of course.

The same employer stated after reading the requirements carefully that I and all fellow American ex-pats should call our embassy to complain about our abusive treatment at the hands of Thai education officers. I told him that sounds nice, if you are in a movie, but in real life the embassy would never "go to bat" for us on such issues since diplomacy and trade agreements could be at stake.

Oh and, one more thing.. Please try to tone down the mud-slinging at us qualified teachers at International schools. We have our own "row to hoe". I and many like me have been illegally fired simply because the "high quality" schools we worked for didn't want to keep paying us that high salary. Choosing instead to find a fresh recruit or even a volunteer.

The sad fact is that there are very, very few schools in The Kingdom that are not functioning first and foremost as a business, leaving educational excellence as a marketing phrase only. To put it into a very simple phrase, most international schools in Thailand are only international in the name. Every decision, curriculum, business, human resources, are made by Thais, for Thais, and with only one things in mind - profits for them.

Ajarn.com says - I'm not sure of the laws exactly (if they exist of course) but do you mean the employer is liable for the cost of just the visa or the whole 'visa run' itself, because that would be a very difficult thing to put a price on. I would certainly like to hear from any other teachers who have read the same set of rules though. Secondly, I'm not aware of any 'mud-slinging towards international school teachers' on the website. The true international school teachers - those that earn very good salaries with benefits - rarely / never read ajarn.com anyway. Thirdly, as for 'shedding the light on the exploitative nature of the education business in Thailand', I think there are enough postbox entries, articles and comments on the ajarn.com website to give anyone a decent picture of how things are here. But of course - you need to take the time to read through the site.

Kelly

Just to put my oar in again on the native speaker vs non-native English speaker argument. native speakers can be great teachers or terrible ones… as can NON native speakers. The problem is definitely partly due to the government and schools assuming that native speakers are the only correct option.

Years ago, when I first came to the country to work on a conservation project, then looked for a way to stay here, people told me to teach English, to which I replied that I didn’t know how. “Of course you do - you come from England!” “Well, by that rule, all Thais should be capable of teaching Thai language…” To this, most people then had to concede that they couldn’t in fact teach Thai despite being Thai.

Despite my self-confessed lack of teaching ability, I got a teaching job, and probably messed with a lot of kids’ heads in the early days. But I learnt how to teach, and am now in a position to look at other teachers and comment on their abilities.

And I have to say that there are loads of native speakers out there who have no idea how to grade their language to an appropriate level for their students. There are even plenty of qualified teachers who may have been great at teaching, say, biology, in their home country, but cannot accept that to teach it to non native speakers, they have to change their methods and the way they introduce both concepts and vocabulary.

So it’s not where you come from, but how well you can grasp where your students are coming from.

But it’s true, I’m sure, that part of the problem is the students’ lack of motivation, especially in areas of the country where there are less foreigners. I look back to my own experiences of learning languages at school in the UK - I didn’t see German as very useful - after all, I had never been, and never planned to go, to Germany!

And then a big part of the problem still lies with the Thai concept of learning. Someone said that all their students say “I want to learn English”, and yet seem to put in no effort - well, the education system has taught them that ‘learning’ is just remembering a set of facts or figures. They expect that learning a language involves sitting there and letting the teacher pour the language into their brains. The concept of active learning does not exist for most Thai students of English, and that is the fault of the system, not the students.

Despite this, an increasing number of Thai people DO learn to speak and write English very well. Hats off to them for realising what they have to do, and doing it. I will continue to teach as well as I can, because just a few of my students look like they’re turning into those self-motivated learners - and it’s my job to encourage them.

Lucie

Marvin, you sent a response to Lauren through the ajarn Postbox but I'm afraid a) It was far too long and b) the Postbox is a letters and sometimes comments section, not a discussion forum. Therefore the way you laid out the response, relying heavily on quotes from Lauren's letter, made it too difficult to follow. Sorry, but it would have required an awful lot of editing on my part. Why don't you resubmit the letter but make sure the content is purely your own and doesn't contain numerous quotes from a previous Postbox entry?

Philip (Ajarn.com)

Dear Marvin (The longer I stay here, Ajarn Postbox, 19th October) Your whining is pathetic and puerile. Yes there are numerous incompetent teachers that are hired simply because they are young and attractive. Yes there are numerous schools that simply want to keep up appearances by hiring such teachers. Yes there are older and more experienced teachers that are often better for the job. However, in my short time teaching in Thailand, I have met my fair share of older teachers who have been teaching in Thailand for more than a decade and yet can barely control their class, wander through their lessons aimlessly because they have not set any goals for their students, and are often the most unlikable characters in the staff room.

Your insinuation that school staff members hire cheap teachers so that they can squander the extra money on drinking is uncouth and plain culturally ignorant! Not to mention the fact that you are treading politically dangerous ground by referring to another culture as "black teachers".

Of course native English speakers trump Filipinos when a school is trying to keep up appearances but your personal preference of accents has nothing to do with it. I find some British accents more off-putting and incomprehensible than that of a Filipino and the fact that you couldn't understand this Filipina's pronunciation of the word "Asian" (which is pronounced differently in every Asian country) reveals your intolerant and impatient character as well as your inability to think laterally. I spent many years working in Filipino slums with some of the most impoverished people in the world, yet despite their lack of formal education, some of those people are more proficient in English than you, a teacher, who cannot even spell the word "principal".

Finally, I am downright infuriated by your insinuation that the only reason that young, blonde-haired, blue-eyed teachers are hired is so that the school staff can "get some".

I am 23 years old with blonde hair and blue eyes and I will have you know that I am a well sought after teacher with numerous job offers, not only because school directors may find me attractive but because I have a very good teaching performance record and I am culturally sensitive. If they have found me attractive, I haven't allowed it to be a downfall to me. If my looks gained me a demo lesson, great! I proved myself in those lessons and every lesson thereafter. I am not naive and I quit one school very soon after I realized they were only interested in having me on staff as, in your words, "window dressing". I quit because there is more to me and my teaching career than that. To insinuate that every young, attractive teacher is interested in making money by that notion is ridiculous.

Furthermore, I am one of those "serious" teachers that you mentioned but I also acknowledge the value that is found in educational games and "learning through play", which is currently being widely accepted as the preferred method of teaching in the west. Perhaps it would be advantageous to you to try a little harder to make your students happy. Not because their parents are paying their fees to have you on staff but because it has been proven that students absorb information far more effectively when they are, in fact, happy.

You say that this country will never change but your attitude reeks of someone unwilling to change their ways or adapt to more modern methods of education. I would suggest that the first change you make is towards becoming more culturally sensitive and perhaps willing to please your students and school faculty a little more. This doesn't mean butt-kissing, but a little respect goes a long way.

Lauren

The longer I stay here the more I realize this country is unlikely to change. Now I am not saying that old teachers are the best teachers but I know teachers who have been here for 8 or 9 years and all their experience seems to be pushed aside for a younger crop who are to be fair more handsome and maybe have more energy. I have seen some pretty crappy older teachers but some younger teachers were fired from my school recently because they simply did not make the grade.

In this country, so little is changing except possible more money being thrown at the system. This means that more money is siphoned off while the school gets the cheapest teachers they can and they have their drinking money for the month. White teachers trump Filipinos (but I have to say that I find the Filipino accent off) Recently a Filipino was trying to say Asian and she kept on saying “Ajean”. I couldn’t get it. She said it about 10 times - and in the end had to spell it.

Black teachers are trumped by everyone no matter where they come from unless they are superstar. Blond-haired, blue-eyed young teachers trump everyone. Who the hell cares if they can teach? I wonder if the principle and co-teachers lick their lips and wonder what extracurricular activity they may get or maybe he can teach them English “privately”.

Now Thailand is promoting itself as the ASEAN hub. It is always amazing in this country how little changes except the way they promote themselves. Who would come to Thailand and open a business given their poor English skills and their innate ability to blame someone else for the fact they hardly ever learn (and the laws where you cannot own anything).

It is always amazing to me when the teacher gets “too serious” the teacher gets fired and until that is addressed, the country will never change. As long as teachers are simply 'window dressing' to make the school look good no one will take the job seriously. Who cares if they have a degree? They rarely use it anyway right?

It seems agencies have secured their place this year in many schools and making sure the brown envelopes keep on flowing. The cheapest newbies are recruited and thrown into schools. Most of them anyway. Everyone takes their cut. If anything I have found education here to be getting worse. Most kids are out of control, they know they can get teachers fired on whim, and the “best teachers” are those who are fun or enjoy constantly having fun. Blond-haired and blue-eyed teachers are great. When they go home and mummy asks how the new teacher is and they all reply in a rising whined cry of elation. Who could object? As long as the students are happy right?

Marvin

In reply to China: The Promised Land? (Ajarn Postbox 20th September) Disastrous experiences; yes we’ve all had them. My letters have at various times extolled the virtues of China, but like everywhere else, experiences differ. After doing “extensive research” should it really take one eight months to discover one has been working illegally? Again, wouldn’t the same happen to the “colleague” who was arrested in China for working illegally, in much the same way as would happen in Thailand? (Plus the corruption in equal measures).

No country is a promised land. It’s always a good idea to ask to speak to a teacher already in the school before signing a contract and as for -30 degree winters; I take it your research into northern China made you aware of this? If your school was breaking the terms of your contract I take it you did complain to your coordinator or The Foreign Affairs Department? No? You just did a runner?! As for “parents peering through glass windows”, do you realize you’re probably the first white person they’d ever seen? Did you smile at them, or scowl and wonder why they were unfriendly towards you?

Certainly, Thailand is a very much more open and friendly country and the secretive nature of a closed society after decades of communism reflects this, but as in any country, beware the unscrupulous schools/agencies!

So, really you wanted the Thai friendliness, low working hours, no corruption and 50k+, plus free everything? You simply chose the wrong company/location. I have all the stated previous; it’s not all perfect, there are hiccups along the way, (plus the -30 winters); but I worked for longer than a few months in Thailand to discover that, as in every aspect of life, you have to spend more than a few months somewhere. More often than not, most problems are caused by a matter of attitude or lack of understanding and being unable to adapt to various cultures.

James

I love Thailand. in fact I've spent a lot of time there usually in one or two-month stretches. I did my CELTA there and worked for a Thai company for a month or two after getting the certificate. But I'll admit, that's not the same as dealing with 7:30am gate duty year after year, so feel free to take what I say with a small grain of salt. In fact, this letter is not really about Thailand, it's about China. There have been a few letters here suggesting that China is the ESL promised land and that any sensible teacher ought to jump ship and go to China, but my experience of China was nothing short of disastrous. I feel I ought to add my perspective, to add a little balance.

My partner also did his CELTA in Thailand and after careful consideration, we decided that China offered more opportunity than Thailand. The contracts my partner and I signed were great (equivalent of 50,000 baht each a month plus free housing and bonuses) and we did what we thought was extensive research on the city and company.

I worked in China for eight months of a one-year contract and by God it was a horrible time. In the end we pulled a midnight runner back to Thailand after we discovered that we had been working illegally for the entire time we were there. In addition, a colleague was stopped by police and arrested when his paperwork was found to be not in order and the company we worked for tried to extort a massive fine out of him. They were the ones who faked the paperwork.

That was the final straw, but during the time we worked in China, we had the terms of our contract broken repeatedly. Our apartment was disgusting. We were lied to frequently over the big issues and the small things. They 'forgot' to pay us our full salaries every month and we would have to threaten to leave in order to get our full pay. We were actively discouraged from teaching effectively in favour of looking more entertaining to the parents peering in through glass windows. We were isolated - and they attempted to keep us on a very short leash indeed.

Outside of school problems, my partner had the trots for eight months and I was sick for two consecutive months in minus 30 degree winters. The city was polluted, the food very unhealthy and the people were nowhere near as friendly as Thais. Arriving back in Thailand after our escape was one of the happiest days of my life. People smile at you! When people ask 'where you go?', it tends to be a middle-aged lady wanting to help you out or practice her English, not a policeman asking what the hell you're doing in his country. Basic rules of politness are observed. Oh, it was heaven.

What's the point of all this on a Thai website? Just a warning to think very carefully before you jump. Chinese schools sponsor and own your visa so getting out of a poor situation is not an easy thing to do. For all our problems, our school would cave in and pay us properly whenever we stood our ground. As bad as they were, there are much worse ones out there.

On the bright side, I can highly recommend Vietnam as a place to live and work!

Ange

The International Science, Mathematics and Technology Education Conference (ISMTEC) 2013, is a unique event, drawing K-12 teachers and specialists, university educators and researchers from around the world. This exciting conference will be held in conjunction with Thailand's "21st Science, Mathematics and Technology Conference in School," the first double conference for Thai and International educators ever held. ISMTEC 2013 will take a fresh look at science, mathematics and technology education: a conference for teachers and SMT educators, planned by teachers and SMT educators, held in one of the world's most dynamic cities! Proposal Deadline September 20. Early bird registration until November 15.

John R. Stiles, Ph.D.
Science Education Specialist and Consultant
Coordinator: International Science, Mathematics & Technology Education Conference (ISMTEC 2013)

http://www.ismtec2013.com
Bangkok, Thailand
+66 80 060 1220
080 060 1220 in Thailand

Ajarn.com

In reply to previous posts about unqualified teachers and the great and plentiful jobs that are supposedly available - I have to disagree. When I first came to Bangkok in 2009, I had a BA (Hons) English degree and a 120-hour TEFL certificate I went to live in Bangkok and trained on a teaching English to young learners course. My experience is that there are very few jobs available that ask for unqualified teachers. Where do you look for these 'unqualified teacher wanted' job ads? The majority of the jobs I apply for are from ajarn.com and they specifically ask for qualified teachers. From 2009-2011 I lived in Bangkok and the money I was offered wasn't anything to write home about, apart from one international school in Bang Kruai which offered fantastic rates per hour for part-time work on a Saturday. I decided to go back to the UK to study for the PGCE (postgraduate certificate in education) from 2011 to 2012. I am now back in Bangkok with two great paying jobs - both full-time and part-time.

Wendy Williams

In reply to ‘The ABCs of NOT securing a job' (Ajarn Postbox 3rd September 2012) I think potential employers are quite capable of smelling a rat and there are enough candidates out there for them to choose from. I too have a problem with criminal reference checks and to date no one has yet come up with an answer.

Here’s a little background and the question: I’m from the UK and due to our privacy laws it’s impossible to obtain a CRC online, or by a simple phone call as in the U.S. Every job I obtain would require a new check as the usual reply from the employer is that the original CRC is too old and a new one must be obtained. That involves a trip back to the UK, a stay in rented accommodation of up to 40 days, a change of address on documents - and finally the trip back.

Now, who’s going to pay for all that every couple of years? Certainly not me and at this point the employer usually goes very quiet. The whole world does not revolve around the U.S way of doing things and this would simply mean a huge reduction of UK teachers who are already living in Asia. Any suggestions?

James